tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post5985315742713609735..comments2024-03-28T03:15:55.088-04:00Comments on Fetch me my axe: -waves rusty gardening shears at Chris Matthews menacingly-, o what a giveawayUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger115125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-35714220029267079662008-02-05T23:59:00.000-05:002008-02-05T23:59:00.000-05:00Ominous sign: while exit polls show that Democrats...Ominous sign: while exit polls show that Democrats who say a candidate's gender is important break strongly for Clinton, those who say race is important tend to be more pro-Clinton as well. In other words, Democrats who're concerned with gender issues vote for women; Democrats who're concerned with race vote for blacks.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-11591026828994882492008-02-01T14:46:00.000-05:002008-02-01T14:46:00.000-05:00Even if there wasn't laws in place, the assumption...Even if there wasn't laws in place, the assumptions had to be that the black mother rendered the children of white men not-white; my understanding is very few of those children were even freed, much less treated like their fathers' children. Hel, it wasn't until a few years ago that the Hemmings descendants of Thomas Jefferson were considered part of the family; they were denied until there was Deoridhehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235419292633778692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-23404784234467547292008-01-31T21:44:00.000-05:002008-01-31T21:44:00.000-05:00It's also a reflection of skin color. I know someo...It's also a reflection of skin color. I know someone who's half black, half white but looks white, so her friends refer to her as "The Italian girl." In contrast, Obama looks very black.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-1302140572166879862008-01-31T21:40:00.000-05:002008-01-31T21:40:00.000-05:00I thought the one-drop rule came about after Recon...I thought the one-drop rule came about after Reconstruction, when there was a wave of interracial marriage, which threatened the established racial definitions.Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-3310596346782920732008-01-31T12:12:00.000-05:002008-01-31T12:12:00.000-05:00Any analysis of Clinton versus Obama that doesn't ...<I>Any analysis of Clinton versus Obama that doesn't take this into consideration really isn't based on anything other than assumptions about his identity.</I><BR/><BR/>Or is a reflection of the 1/18th rule,w hich stated so long as a perosn had 1/18 of their ancestry from a black person, they were black.<BR/><BR/>Of course, this was used by white slaveowners to keep their own children as slaves; Deoridhehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235419292633778692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-62125685941117020122008-01-29T19:08:00.000-05:002008-01-29T19:08:00.000-05:00You know what? I'm highly fucking pissed off at th...You know what? I'm highly fucking pissed off at the comments some people have left on this thread. It's so ridiculous that I don't know what to address first, but how about we start with this:<BR/><BR/><B>Soopermouse, you are full of shit.</B><BR/><BR/>Obama IS white, so this stuff you're saying about if Obama was white nobody would pay attention to him is just nonsense. You don't have to be a bint alshamsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00658169355503798587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-14491098484633158262008-01-29T17:21:00.000-05:002008-01-29T17:21:00.000-05:00Eh, I'm heasitant drawing a causal conclusion from...Eh, I'm heasitant drawing a causal conclusion from correlational data, especially when it's a single data point. You're dead right on the political failing issue, though. The other big problem I see is that no one speaks in language meant to communicate anymore; it's all jargon, soundbites, and rhetoric. 8/Deoridhehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235419292633778692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-65641875173743925142008-01-27T12:49:00.000-05:002008-01-27T12:49:00.000-05:00For a different take on the Steinem article, check...For a different take on the Steinem article, check out Ishmael Reed's <A HREF="http://www.counterpunch.org/reed01142008.html" REL="nofollow"><B>long rant</B></A> at Counterpunch, entitled "Going Old South on Obama: Ma and Pa Clinton Flog Uppity Black Man"Ravenmnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11578771107514349258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-42014336067196808012008-01-26T22:16:00.000-05:002008-01-26T22:16:00.000-05:00Thanks Trin.Speaking of black women... staring at ...Thanks Trin.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of black women... staring at the South Carolina exit poll, I can't help but notice that Clinton's gender gap is a lot stronger among whites. White women gave her 42% of the vote compared with 28% of white men; among blacks, it was 20% and 17%. Given the choice between a white woman and a black man, black women overwhelmingly went for the black man.<BR/><BR/>We Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-41989239865799339152008-01-25T17:32:00.000-05:002008-01-25T17:32:00.000-05:00Thanks Alon. And yeah, what you said. :)Thanks Alon. And yeah, what you said. :)Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-46013089917083193082008-01-25T17:27:00.000-05:002008-01-25T17:27:00.000-05:00SM: going back to what Deo quoted, "You're failing...SM: going back to what Deo quoted, "You're failing to acknowledge her valid points" assumes she has any. The main point of her essay is that Clinton's unfairly attacked for being female, and in general female candidates can't get anywhere, while Obama's never been criticized on racial grounds. My point here is that it's just plain wrong.<BR/><BR/>And Trin did acknowledge the valid points; she Alon Levyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12195377309045184452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-21280623188888345312008-01-25T00:17:00.000-05:002008-01-25T00:17:00.000-05:00Look at the way Hillary Clinton is being treated b...<I>Look at the way Hillary Clinton is being treated by Obama suporters, in this very thread</I><BR/><BR/>Oh for fucks sake.<BR/><BR/><B>I AM NOT AN OBAMA SUPPORTER. I HAVE NEVER BEEN AN OBAMA SUPPORTER. I HAVE EXPLICITLY SAID I SUPPORT NONE OF THE TOP THREE CANDIDATES. </B> <BR/><BR/><I>Because anything a woman does is not as important as what a man does, regardless how small the man's Deoridhehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235419292633778692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-87602202317461023982008-01-24T19:44:00.000-05:002008-01-24T19:44:00.000-05:00"Also, Gypsy is increasingly being regarded as the..."Also, Gypsy is increasingly being regarded as the ethnic slur it is. While you used it in the context of outlining why you are the most oppressed person ever because you have no community anywhere and everyone discriminates against you, using the terms "Rom" or "traveler" at least shows respect for one of the groups you're accused of being a part of."<BR/> Look at the way Hillary Clinton is soopermousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266304739028473267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-15024827240711365702008-01-24T13:22:00.000-05:002008-01-24T13:22:00.000-05:00"And Trinity brought up a good point about how som..."And Trinity brought up a good point about how sometimes there are just basic conflicts between peoples’ experiences that don’t have a common ground, but I don’t think that is the case here. I think the case here is using "woman" to once again exclude many women, and I find that repulsive."<BR/><BR/>*agree*Trinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846032433424879965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-47565654957328971622008-01-24T13:17:00.000-05:002008-01-24T13:17:00.000-05:00I really think that there is a severely flawed und...<I>I really think that there is a severely flawed underlying assumption here: that I use "women" in the way the "mainstear feminism" uses it, as in to mean "white women". I don't. I think "woman" and that doesn't come with a racial qualificative to it. I don't believe the racial defining is needed.</I><BR/><BR/>By that logic, the opinions of all women should be equally weighted. So why, the Deoridhehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235419292633778692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-72617510735721120962008-01-24T10:17:00.000-05:002008-01-24T10:17:00.000-05:00SM, the point is that you have a number of issues ...SM, the point is that you have a number of issues to choose from. You have your gender, your skin color, your accent, your immigrant status. We're saying all of those things interact. In some instances, your gender will be the biggest factor in why you are treated badldy. In other instances, your race may be the largest contributor to your oppression. <BR/><BR/>Rather than see it as a contest, Ravenmnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11578771107514349258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-43956767360677720592008-01-24T09:01:00.000-05:002008-01-24T09:01:00.000-05:00DonnaI gave a night's thought to your question and...Donna<BR/>I gave a night's thought to your question and tried to figure out what aspect of my identity is the one that makes my life harder in terms of discrimination, and I am afraid it is gender. For a logn time, I thougth that being an immigrant was the main problem. But turns out that being a male immigrant isn't that big of a deal. Turns out that if you are male, it's ok and laudable to soopermousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266304739028473267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-20057218350039291452008-01-24T08:04:00.000-05:002008-01-24T08:04:00.000-05:00OK, sidetrack to the Iraq issue to make a couple o...OK, sidetrack to the Iraq issue to make a couple of points.<BR/><BR/>First, soldiers are not humanitarian workers. They never have been and they never will be. They aren't trained for it. They don't have the supplies or the equipment and they certainly don't have the trust of the people they're invading. The vast majority of Iraqis want the troops to leave. They have the right to be heard.<BR/><Ravenmnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11578771107514349258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-17818115022558605202008-01-24T00:57:00.000-05:002008-01-24T00:57:00.000-05:00Sorry, in these last few comments, I have to side ...Sorry, in these last few comments, I have to side with SM. I could buy once the idea that underprivileged people who use rhetoric that's associated with the privileged deserve scorn... and then I started reading posts by black people who said things like, "I liked Rudy Giuliani because he put Al Sharpton in his place." These aren't necessarily rich people who have no clue why black people who Alonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267294744186811858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-36026877233158419262008-01-24T00:19:00.000-05:002008-01-24T00:19:00.000-05:00OK, I lied, I'm back to respond to Ravenm.Oh, plea...OK, I lied, I'm back to respond to Ravenm.<BR/><BR/><I>Oh, please! Not that nonsense again. The experts that have been proven wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong again? So now that we all know they are wrong, we decide they are the one's worth listening to?</I><BR/><BR/>No, actually, these would be different experts.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying we should plan to stay in and keep fucking it up. I'm Plain(s)feministhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056404699624958898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-14624368991501437222008-01-23T21:39:00.000-05:002008-01-23T21:39:00.000-05:00Donna, I see your point. I don't really think that...Donna, I see your point. I don't really think that was her intention though, but I unerstand where you are coming from.soopermousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266304739028473267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-73403455627004107412008-01-23T21:35:00.000-05:002008-01-23T21:35:00.000-05:00And since we have to talk about Clinton and Obama'...And since we have to talk about Clinton and Obama's pre elected record of politica work, here's what Wikipedia says:<BR/>Obama<BR/>"Obama received his B.A. degree in 1983, then worked at Business International Corporation and NYPIRG before moving to Chicago to take a job as a community organizer.[23] As Director of the Developing Communities Project, he worked with low-income residents in soopermousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266304739028473267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-43156132675692025542008-01-23T21:23:00.000-05:002008-01-23T21:23:00.000-05:00SM, would you feel any differently if instead of a...SM, would you feel any differently if instead of a black man running for president, he was a Jewish man? What if Steinem said that it's more important for a woman to be elected than a Jewish man because Jews have it good in the US and aren't discriminated against the way that women are? Wouldn't that feel like a slap in the face to you, since you know you are discriminated against on the basis ofDonnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13714518339153250453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-65432511825233259032008-01-23T20:41:00.000-05:002008-01-23T20:41:00.000-05:00Ravenma:I really think that there is a severely fl...Ravenma:<BR/><BR/>I really think that there is a severely flawed underlying assumption here: that I use "women" in the way the "mainstear feminism" uses it, as in to mean "white women". I don't. I think "woman" and that doesn't come with a racial qualificative to it. I don't believe the racial defining is needed.<BR/><BR/>"In the U.S. if you are white-skinned and Jewish, you still command a lot soopermousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266304739028473267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18375173.post-51137049592241178872008-01-23T17:36:00.000-05:002008-01-23T17:36:00.000-05:00Trinity, you're the awesome. You are absolutely ri...Trinity, you're the awesome. You are absolutely right. I was assuming SM was living in a white world with no experience of racism. That was my error.<BR/><BR/>Soopermouse, thanks for continuing the discussion, even though we disagree on a lot. I hope you can help me understand your point of view. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me right now.Ravenmnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11578771107514349258noreply@blogger.com