Saturday, January 03, 2009

It's official: pretty much anyone at all might invoke "feminism" in service of their ends

Really, I don't know why people keep saying the -word- is out of fashion and needs preservation; it seems to me the -word- is about as endangered as, well, the Traditional Nukular Family and Merry Christmas. As for the proper -spirit- of such things, well. I wouldn't know, being a degnerate heathen and all, but anyway: here are the thinky thoughts of one Father Joe, on "preserving purity:"

How should couples act prior to marriage? I would like to offer certain recommendations:

FIRST, the whole dating scene is a mess. We should opt for the older practices of courtship. Dating today is an excuse for “making out” and compromising virginity. Younger children should not go out on dates and older teens should be chaperoned. Young adults need the mindset that stepping out with the opposite sex is not simply for a good time, but part of the search for a future mate. Dating is transitory. Courtship plays for keeps!

SECOND, both men and women should prize their purity and do all they can to preserve it as a gift for their future spouse. There should be no double-standard for men. As for women, it is not true feminism or liberation to be as sleazy as certain men. Restraint in this area shows strength of character and a discipline that will keep them in good stead within marriage. Today, we must also contend with sexually transmitted diseases which infect millions, sometimes with lethal consequences. Sex kills! This is contrary to its very purpose. The only sure way to remain clean of infection is for a couple to remain pure and to enter upon the marriage bed undefiled.

THIRD, modesty in speech and dress should rule the day. Vulgar flirtation and immodest dress is in vogue starting with pre-teens and going into adulthood. Many complain that styles are so risqué that it is hard for true ladies to find decent clothing. Some women have resorted again to making their own dresses. Men and women are not the same. One pretty but flirtatious girl who had every boy’s eye remarked to me that she stopped short of getting the boys’ motors running. Poor thing, I explained, boys’ motors are always running! The best of young men can be quite weak in the flesh and they need good girls to keep them good. Young men should not lie or compel favors from women with their physical strength. Women should not tempt men with their clothes, or lack of clothes, and suggestive speech...

And so on, and so on, and so on. See, -true- feminism would be, uhhh, ummm, well...anyway, something better. See. Yeah. Isn't it always? Thanks, Father Whosit! We Value Your Opinion.

Oh, I like this bit, too:

FIFTH, while showing compassion to those who make mistakes, we need to retain a sense of shame for scandalous activity. I recall a teenage girl who had a child and everyone kissed and admired the beautiful baby. We were thankful that a prolife decision was made. However, I was troubled that she showed no remorse or embarrassment at having given away her virginity or having an illegitimate child. Most babies in the past born to such girls were given up for adoption. The stigma served a purpose and its eradication is no service to other girls who might make a similar mistake.

Clearly, the Magdalene Laundries were a hotbed of True Feminism. Not to mention True Christianity. Because if there was one thing the message of Jesus was all about, it was stigmatizing people, women especially, who flouted sexual convention and/or were already the untouchable caste in their respective societies. "Lock 'em up and throw away the key, the dirty sluts," sez Jesus. Also, hierarchy, "family values," and rigid adherence to ritual. That whole "whited sepulchre" thing? Or the railing about "scribes and Pharisees?" Don't worry about it, really.


El Squidge said...

Yeah, that stigma kept the foolish from making mistakes. If the mothers weren't stigmatized after having illegitimate children, they'd have illegitimate children. That's why there were never any illegitimate children back in the day. So it was worth it making all those illegitimate kids' lives painful; Otherwise, people would have been having illegitimate children, and their lives are very painful. Wait...

killjoy said...

I'm always struck by the way fundies write -- so very "gentle" and "reasonable" and yet perky! Super perky!

And yes, men should refrain from raping women, and women should refrain from flirting with men. Perhaps the U.S. needs to make flirting a crime punishable by several years in prison, to be fair.

Falyne said...

"Young men should not lie or compel favors from women with their physical strength. Women should not tempt men with their clothes, or lack of clothes, and suggestive speech."


That's one of the more disturbing euphemisms for rape I've ever heard. Especially when presented in tandem with the following and entirely not-comparable sentence.

And, yeah, some of us see the lessening of burdens or stigmas on our fellow humans to be a feature, not a bug. Jackoff. :-P

Falyne said...

Actually, it's not even a real euphemism at all. More like a straight-up description. Creeeeepyyyy.

belledame222 said...

Well, you know, you can't -blame- men/boys for turning all bestial and savage, not really; their "motors are always running." Besides, masturbation is a sin and all, so really, it's not surprising that they can barely control themselves when a woman shows some cleavage or looks at them directly or something.

belledame222 said...

And yeah, I love the perky! wacky good humor! look, he has humorous "what people and/or God are saying about this blog" in the sidebar! I like humorous people, they make lemonade out of life's lemons! LOL ;-) :-) :-O

Anonymous said...

I think I'm going to have to write a whole blog post of my own just to deal with the horrendous abuses of the English language in that piece. (I'm REALLY puzzled by the phrase "compromised virginity" - what, like "we haggled over just how much of my virginity I was going to lose", or something!?)

I'll just echo the WTF" sentiments about the "victim-blaming" message in "THIRD".

Also, "stepping out with the opposite sex is not simply for a good time, but part of the search for a future mate. Dating is transitory. Courtship plays for keeps!"

Erm, how are we supposed to know whether or not we WANT to play for keeps with THIS PARTICULAR PERSON? Unless we are free to get to know one another intimately? (Intimately on an emotional level, I'm thinking here, but a certain amount of physical intimacy tends to go with that!)

Comrade PhysioProf said...

compromising virginity
lethal consequences
sex kills
vulgar flirtation
flirtatious girl
boys' motors running
weak in the flesh

Holy fucknoly, what a window into a sick motherfucker's twisted psyche!

andi said...

"stepping out with the opposite sex is not simply for a good time, but part of the search for a future mate. Dating is transitory. Courtship plays for keeps!"

He does not know what he is talking about. Back in the day, when courtship was in vogue there were set rules in place and people's circles of acquaintances were smaller. One knew the people in one's circle quite well, often from birth, one also asked the lady's father for permission to court her. He made the decision if this was an acceptable mate for his daughter, and then the courtship began. Not all courtships were consummated by a marriage, many did break off much earlier than that. Also not all courtship arrangements meant that one needed a chaperon, depending on who they were, where they were going, age and so forth,,,a good many folks "stepped out" with out adult supervision.
Thank goodness this gent is just on the fringes of Christian thought and not more influential in society...I'd hate to see him have any kind of real power.

therapydoc said...

Take 'em all on, dear. You're goin' great.

O said...

I love Comrade PP's comment; only one thing to add. Not only is that list of terms a window into the twisted psyche, it's ALSO like a cheat sheet that tells us what this 'Father' thinks feminism really is, don't you think?

And we all know that the real kind of feminism is the kind that men tell us it is. So he has that going for him too.

Just shut up ladies, and let the men tell us what liberation consists in.

belledame222 said...

Welcome to new posters, p.s.

a very public sociologist said...

"It's official: pretty much anyone at all might invoke "feminism" in service of their ends"

I thought this became true when Sarah Palin got selected ;)

belledame222 said...

Hey, yeah, innit, it's Joe the Priest!

Renegade Evolution said...

people like father joe there annoy the shit out of me...

and I am sleazier than most men, thank you very much!

Pfff. Overly religious humans..

Westerly said...

"Sex kills!"

It's only a matter of time before someone puts this on a tee-shirt.

Anthony Kennerson said...

Would that be the same "Father Joe" who opined in an earlier blog that anyone who is a practicing Catholic who votes for Barack Obama should be excommunicated from the Church and their children denied Communion....merely because Obama happens to be pro-choice on women's reproductive rights???

Oh....he would??

And...I guess that the good Father doesn't understand that if women do in fact follow his edicts and "save themselves" for "the marriage bed", then the first night of bliss will basically be like rape??

And I'm guessing that Father Joe would be equally opposed to the likes of Dennis Praeger's recent ranting about how women shouldn't resist their husbands insistence on performing said "marital act"???

Yeah. Thought so.

Tell you what, Father....fix your own Church's problem with pedophile priests, and then I may take your rantings a bit more seriously.


Seraph said...

Oh oh oh do I hate this shit or what. I have had to hear the "rape is terrible, but girls need to dress more modestly!" kind of line from waaaay too many people. I wish I'd realized how squicky it was sooner.

belledame222 said...

Oh ffs, he has a "Catholic Courtship Test" now. Jolly jolly twinkle twinkle!!

"Boys always think about sex and need help to be good" is a -correct- answer, please note, as is "our proper attitude about homosexuals should be "love the sinner but hate the sin" (as opposed to "ignore them, it is none of our business," "tolerate and accept" or "ridicule and mock")

Really old school; legalistic questions about when it is and isn't okay to get an annulment or...however it works, oh, and Catholics can't marry Protestants without special dispensation...

what a smug suety git this guy is.

oh, that's right, AND, "the moral weight of sexual however he phrased it is with the woman" is ALSO a "correct" answer.

Okay, I went and did it again with a tricky question. Most people will proably get 90% and some of these will vehemently disagree with me. I will give a HINT: The late Archbishop Fulton Sheen said that the moral situation between men and women will pretty much be what the women want it to be. This might sound sexist, but he was convinced that if women said NO to improper advances, most guys would respect them and their boundaries. Otherwise, boys will test boudaries, and often try to get away with as much as they can. Women pay the highest price for sexual misconduct. The introduction of the pill made many forget this. The rise in venereal diseases is forcing a moral re-evaluation. Of course, good Catholic morality is not simply based upon negative consequences and fear, but rather upon what is RIGHT and upon what GOD WANTS.

I think I'm in loathe.

And no, I didn't realize this was that same Father Joe. How charming.

...oh yeah, should've known the posts on Obama's transition wouldn't just be harmless little news fillers.

Nancy Keenan was once the school superintendent in Montana. This might make her seem more qualified for Education instead of Labor.

She fits the mold of a Biden-Catholic and is pro-choice. She told her bishop that “As a Catholic, I accept the teaching of my church on abortion. That is my personal religious belief . . . As a public official, there is no question in my mind that depriving women of the right to follow their conscience is the same as imposing religious beliefs.”

She knows a lot about LABOR as she is the current president of NARAL.

belledame222 said...

A comment:

I can’t find any of this funny, Father Joe. I am sick at heart.

Surely, God must know what’s to become of this country in the hands of this monster who has been elected as President.

I cannot understand why he would put this wonderful country in the hands of a madman. I trust that He knows what He’s doing, but I’m so furious with Him.

I don’t understand.

killjoy said...


...also, it's nice that it doesn't make her heartsick when her wonderful country kills hundreds of thousands of people in other countries, but when it elects the wrong guy, o what can God be thinking.

Daisy said...

I am pretty sure I know this guy from the old AOL Catholic chat room.

He hasn't changed a bit.

Daisy said...

I've decided "Biden-Catholic" is my new favorite thing to call myself--it drives them crazy!!!

The Roman Curia won't excommunicate Biden, you see... they're too proud to have a Catholic Veep for that--pride vs dogma, now come ON, every Catholic knows which one of THOSE will always win! ;)

Biden for pope!

belledame222 said...

That -is- rather awesome, yes.

Sara said...

"Many complain that styles are so risqué that it is hard for true ladies to find decent clothing. Some women have resorted again to making their own dresses."

I agree only with this part, because I do complain that there is no room for cuteness past something like 12.

If I want a summer dress that doesn't have a halter top, and isn't made of what looks to me like a sewn bedsheet (an expensive one maybe? it doesn't matter), I have to resort to very few locations, if not abroad in specialty shops...

I managed to find a summer dress last summer, a somewhat-longer-than-knee black poplin cotton jumper style shirred-waist dress with an A-line skirt and a rather cute look. It has enough room under the skirt to be worn as is, or with petticoats.

It was the only dress like this I found in any of the shops I visited this summer. The only one of that particular shop as well.

I think the pressure-to-be-sexy is no longer just mediatic, it's become economic, with other options being a lot more expensive (add shipping from overseas).

I wish I could learn to sew still, it would solve part of my problem I bet. Not that it'd make it easier to get cute clothes (what with having to make it yourself), but it'd make it cheaper.

Is there a way to sew without a sewing machine or similar equipment? Not just for repairs, but for making something from scratch.

belledame222 said...

Oh yeah, I hear that one. Sadly, I can barely even -hold- a needle and thread, let alone sew anything.

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