Thursday, March 30, 2006

Sex-positive feminism (2)

Note: this is a work in progress, having spun out of the comments from an earlier post. The "you" here, at least in the first part of it, probably refers back to bitch | lab, to whom I was originally responding. At any rate it's worth checking out that whole sequence for better context.

**3/31/08** Having looked at this piece for the first time in a couple of years, now that it's been carnivalized, some of it's making me wince. If you think you remember this differently, it's because I'm doing some on the fly late edits.

***

I keep reading several themes within "anti-pornstitution" writings.

Mainstream, at least; or all, depending on who's speaking--obviously this isn't monolithic on the radfem/feminist end either--porn & prostitution are oppressive because

a) they, or more specifically porn, here, reinforces patriarchal hegemonic structures and ideals, through the saturation of media images

b) they/it reduces what should be an intimate, soulful interaction into a meaningless cash transaction, the woman to be consumed by the male consumer. (Gay male prostitution is generally unacknowledged, but if someone else brings it up, it is swept under/into this same category, because the people who buy the services/consumers are stil men, and the prostitutes are still being exploited/consumed)

c) most, if not all women in sex work are doing this against their will, are badly exploited and abused in the process of making porn and performing sex work services.

It is pretty much a truism even among the "sex positive" that by far the majority of people earning their living by sex do not live lives much resembling that of sex-positive sex workers such as Carol Queen. Even if one is skeptical of, say, Melissa Farley's "90%", it is probably fair to say that there is, for quite a lot of women, if not all, at least some serious element of exploitation, if not outright danger, inherent in the gig.


****

Well, it seems to me that c) is by far the fairest and most troubling critique of the whole business: that is, the abuse/exploitation is real, it's widespread, it's often breathtakingly horrific, and it's not gonna go away just because a handful of relatively privileged (on the global scale) women are finding a way to not just survive but make a relatively lucrative and soul-fulfilling career out of sex work in spite of it all.

But the thing is, you cannot separate the question of class from all this, and that is most blatantly apparent here. And it's here where I think the construction of patriarchy as the all-encompassing frame to examine all this breaks down. While this is admittedly not my area of expertise, it seems obvious to me that if one seriously wants to examine sex work as exploitive because it transforms the workers into a commodity to be bought and sold, usually at the hands of grossly more wealthy and hence powerful consumers, then is is more accurate to pin the problem in this case, at least, as capitalism, not so much patriarchy. And that it would probably be more helpful to shift one's central focus to a socio-economic lens (i.e. talk about class, work and money in general) than one dealing solely with male-female power dynamics.

More troubling to me is the way in which all the railing and blaming still does nothing in itself to help the actual exploited women, and in fact often ends up demonizing them or at least depriving them of their agency, any agency, through a patronizing tone. This is putting aside and separate from real-world activism that results or has resulted in enactment or enforcement of laws which 1) in realpolitik terms usually means that the radfems have to get in bed (!) with the uber-patriarchal Religious Right, and, perhaps because of this, or perhaps would have happened anyway, 2) the laws and regulations effectively end up, historically have ended up, blaming, demonizing and punishing the very women the anti-sex-work/"pornstitution" feministswere supposedly trying to help.

It seems clear that the most important, (often unsung) work is being done by the sex workers themselves.

(Sex trafficking is, assuming one does not agree with the position that it is indistinguishable from prostitution, a topic to itself, one which I don't feel qualified to tackle at the present. It is worth noting, however, that there are in fact places where the intersections of "sex work" and trafficking, along with other international human rights issues, are considered. Here's one. Ditto abuse, underage prostitution, pimping, and other grim realities that are not, contrary to the apparent belief of some, what "sex positive" people are in favor of or complacent about. The meeting ground is usually found under the name "harm reduction." An example. Another).

And it's at this point where one comes to a crossroads: either one does or does not agree that, okay, sex work is problematic primarily because it is exploitive as a money transaction in an ownership society, and that it is at least possible to conceive of a set-up in which sex work is, in the final analysis, work, no more or less. Even if one is skeptical (for good reason, imo) that such a set-up is likely to become the norm anytime soon, if ever, this is still an important point.

Because, particularly if one is coming from a radical position, the assumption is that one is at least open to, hell, is working for, deep-rooted, widespread change, even if over the long haul. And that therefore it is worth distinguishing "rare, steep uphill battle to achieve at all, but not impossible" from "never has worked, never will work, not in any way shape or form, let's move on." And my argument is that non-exploitive, meaningful, creative, "positive" sex work falls into the former category; because I have observed, first-hand, if not directly experienced except indirectly (but even that was something) that this is so.

And, further, that sex work can thus be viewed in the same way as all other work for pay, however one approaches that whole enormous complicated subject. For example: the garment industry. There are many many women and children viciously exploited in hellhole factories throughout the world, and arguably this is as least as predicated along gender and racial lines as prostitution. Does this mean that all clothes production is inherently exploitive? Does one dismiss the experiences of say a fortunate handful of independent clothes designers, who work primarily for themselves and love their work? Does one lump an underpaid hash-slinger, perhaps one who's in the country illegally and accepts miserable conditions and below-minimum pay in order to not be deported, into the same category as a self-employed caterer who works out of her home? Is "straight" work always automatically better, even assuming it's available?

Because if one reads all this and is still going, yesyesyes, but it's DIFFERENT. sex work is DIFFERENT,

then it leads us directly into

b), which is predicated on the assumption that sex is something special, apart. Higher or lower (or both!) than the more mundane activities we take for granted as work or play. That physical sex is bound up inextricably with emotional intimacy; and that both physical sex and erotically charged emotional intimacy are inextricably bound up with the idea of relationship, specifically and usually, a monogamous dyad. The traditional-family-values folks insist that this dyad must needs be differently-gendered; the leftier folks of this position broaden the view to include homosexual (monogamous, is usually the implication, at least) dyads, as healthy and desirable. And that sex is healthy and good...within this set-up. But not so much outside it. Certainly not as much, even if the occasional fling might be okay (depending, again, on who you ask) between or on the way to a real, serious relationship.

Which position, is perfectly fine, as individual preferences go. But it does tickle me a bit when it's coming from someone who positions her/himself as radically opposed to patriarchy, kit 'n' kaboodle, and when it comes up in the context of a sociopolitical discussion (i.e. what's good for women/people in general, not just what I like).

Because the assumption here is that sex, even if one accepts that it can be about fun and pleasure rather than just or primarily procreation (which is the right-wing sexual conservative position), 1) needs to be emotionally intimate in order to be a good thing, and/or 2) erotic emotional intimacy is only possible within the context of a long-term, monogamous, dyadic relationship.

Which assumptions are surprise! surprise! brought to you directly from the Patriarchy (tm), here more specifically the Victorian version, with its emphasis on a domestically romantic love. What to do, what to do.

Well, one could always go the way of late seventies/early eighties-style rad lesbian feminism, you know, "feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." Never mind if you're not into sex with women, especially; the goal is to Overthrow The Patriarchy, after all. Maybe go so far as live on a commune, and/or have polyamorous and/or casual sexual relationships with one's fellow wimmin, so long as they're completely egalitarian, free of such dangerous remnants of the Patriarchy as butch-femme, BDSM, maybe even penetration.

At which point one who is naturally predisposed toward monogamous romantic longterm (and especially heterosexual) dyads may well respond roughly along the lines of, (as I have seen come up, more or less), "well, gee, I don't do everything in order to please or subvert the Patriarchy. I do this because it feels right and healthy and natural, and say, why are you getting all up in my grill? Why even bring this up? I thought we were talking about patriarchal oppression, not how radical I am or what I do with my relationships and/or sex life."

At which point the sex-positive feminist, who is not necessarily so predisposed and has been trying to say this all along, goes, "DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!"

I'll speak to my own experiences in this in a separate post someday soon, I think, and probably in another blog. But briefly: what I learned in particular from my experiences with an organization called Body Electric, was that it is possible to have moments of *profound* erotic/emotional, even spiritual, connection with someone whom one barely knows, has little or nothing (superficially) in common with, and will likely never see again after the weekend. And that further, the experience can be healing in a way that reverberates long beyond the actual encounter. And that while I did not do this as a paid sex worker, there were a number of people I encountered along the way (male and female) who do and did do this in their own lives; and clearly experienced such meaning in connection in the work they do/did. In this way the sex work is a lot closer to more traditional counseling (my own chosen path, or eventually) than to selling oneself as a consumer good.

Finally, I'm now thinking that a) needs to be treated in a separate sequence of posts, as it starts to get into the whole notion of "objectification."

41 comments:

jean said...

"most important work being done in this country...has been done by the sex workers themselves..."

This is what makes me wonder exactly what *some* radfems think they are accomplishing when they denounce any kind of unionization for sex workers. 'Well, it'll be just like other unions and blahblahblah.' Well, not if they do it themselves, not if they get some support for the people that are supposed to be on their side. Very frustrating to see ideogical purity stepping all over the whole point.

belledame222 said...

And of course even "just being like other unions," problematic as that can be (depending WHICH unions, of course, in part), is still one hell of a lot better than being at the mercy of Big Daddy Law as well as abusive customers and exploitive managers/pimps.

but at this point I think we also start getting into the whole "the perfect is the enemy of the good, so unless we can take down the whole monstruous regiment in one fell swoop, there's no point even bothering; in fact that would make things worse, because people might then get the deluded idea that their lives are O.K. or at least better now and it's okay to stop fighting" business, strong echoes of which I see creeping about some of the radfem writings (among many other self-styled radicals of varying stripes, of course). Drives me batshit.

Bitch | Lab said...

This is really interesting. We all should write a book! "We all". I like that.

Anyway, yes to Jean. I don't understand this or even some folks who've said they refuse to support dicriminalization. What in fuck?

Prob. the thing that got me started on this rampage about this topic was a frickin Das Kapital Thumpin' Marxist who was on the Marxism lists from the old Spoons Collective.

It's too long a story for comments, but I finally asked the earnest young fellow: What's the difference between selling my fabulous skills at baking apple pies and selling my skills at giving fabulous hummers?

Well, for the non-marxist left there's a whole bunch of things going on, but for the marxist left, who is supposed to understand that work in general is not really much different from prostitution, it's a wonder to me how they stop dead in their tracks and say, "but, but, but. that's two different things?"

I can sorta understand it from non-marxist lefties. But for people who read a guy who says in The Capitalist Manifesto that bourgeous housewives = prostitutes! Where's the football bat?

belledame222 said...

Exactly. Especially the football bat part (even though I still don't know what that is).

no, you're right of course; it's the irony I'm noting here. At least for the religious/"traditional" right it's more consistent, in this regard at any rate: society has an Order. Here's where you stand. (of course, the weirdness of the religious right aligning itself with the "free-market" capitalists is yet another irony, but that's yet another whole direction one could go on for ages in)

Violet Socks said...

then I read an allusion on Violet Socks' site to a discussion where this had indeed come up.

FWIW, the reference on my site was in the context of reminiscing about the excesses of 70s femtheory -- as well as discussing the physical nature of sex and evolutionary adaptations for it. Nobody is reviving the argument that penetrative sex is bad.

belledame222 said...

Okay, good to know. Thanks for clarifying.

Dwayne M. said...

Just a general comment (because I don't have the background or expertise to engage deeply with these questions and, also, I'm on the floor of a data center, typing awkwardly into a laptop I should be using as the prime node of supercomputer cluster)...

This is an excellent, excellent post and places things I've been reading from various sources into a coherently constructed context.

Many thanks for taking the time.


.d.

belledame222 said...

1. Thanks, and no prob; been meaning to do this for quite some time. And am really glad that people have been engagin in the comments section; having something/someone to bounce off of makes it far far easier for me to compose these screeds, I find.

2. On the floor? Ow! Hope that doesn't last too long. Take care of your neck and wrists...

Bitch | Lab said...

@ belle

one of the ironies of this story -- about the earnest marxist fellow? They were trying to decide whether to unionize ala COYOTE! This wastn' just spoutin' theoretical debates, it was: women had come to them to help them and they were jerking off over theory! (there's some dork explanation that unions are best organized where productive labor occurs -- manly man making stuff -- and not where reproductive labor occurs -- girly girl making babies, raising children, sex work stuff. Cute, huh?)

But, yeah. I swear to heaven I read a really persuave rant at Ginmar's about why we shouldn't decriminalizae or support unions.

I may even have an essay here somewhere. The jist of the argument that I recall is that you don't want to legitimate it, since right now it's only at the level of illicit cultural reproduction of violence against women. If you make it legal, then you're condoning it.

belledame222 said...

oh WELL then.

gee, I guess everyone who is pro-choice must needs then "condone" abortion; one certainly can't be in the grey area of personally finding it problematic, perhaps more so in some contexts than others, but ultimately coming down on the side of keeping it legal/decriminalization, on account of 1) it's ultimately up to the woman who lives in the body in question and 2) in both cases, there is nothing in recorded history that suggests that enacting punitive laws does anything to stop or even slow the practice; the demand is far too strong. The only question is how much harassment and extra grief you're willing to heap on the heads of women who are already very likely in a difficult position, certainly one about which they've given more thought than you ever will, NOT BEING IN THEIR BODIES OR HEADS.

also see: Prohibition, "War on Drugs," yadda, yadda, yadda.

kactus said...

Ok, I'm kind of at that naive point in my theory where I keep thinking "but it's going to happen anyway, so why not decriminalize and unionize?" I remember back in the COYOTE days, I was a virginal teen then, and it still made tons of sense to me. I just don't see prostitution going away. And I've done sex work, so I've got a smidgeon of first-hand knowledge here.

Re: the porn thing. What's the opinion about lesbian-produced porn? Is that still considered to be exploitive?

belledame222 said...

Don't ask me.

Well. My overall impression from the radfem blogosphere, at least, is that it doesn't seem to exist, at least not enough to be worth mentioning. And, as with gay male porn, if you do, it gets swept into the same dreary template: but but but patriarchal structures recreation objectification blah blah bliddy blah. Perhaps this is an unfair generalization based on a superficial reading; but, hey, join the club there, me.

...actually I was just reading a post wrt sex-pos feminism (among other things) at blackamazon's site--I hadn't realized she was only 21 (and btw it makes me really happy when people are already so smart and interesting and full of depth and passion at that age)

--anyway she was saying that one of her problems with sex-pos feminism was that it was so focused on heterosexuality and passive being "sexy" as opposed to claiming sexual agency. and I was all like "buh?" maybe in bizarro world, but for *me*...and the authors/mentors/peers I've understood as sex-pos...

and then it hit me: this strikes me as weird in exactly the same way that the neo-radfems being mostly (it seems to me) het and often quite young struck me as weird, and holy shit of course that's it: I'm getting old.

well, wait, no, not the main point. of course.

but maybe, maaayyyybe, at least from the sex-pos side, what we're seeing is the good old process of "commodifying dissent" at work. Maybe what's happened in sex-pos is roughly equivalent to what happened with the riot grrl thing: from riot grrl to Spice Girls to Powerpuff Girls. and the neoradfems are reacting strongly against this not in *spite* of (some of their) youth, but BECAUSE of it. because people weren't around for the original Sex Wars, or even the days when Susie Bright and her few "sexpert" peers were saying stuff that *wasn't* at all mainstream, even in a large-scale counterculture way. and now we're reinventing the wheels within wheels within wheels...

EL said...

the construction of patriarchy as the all-encompassing frame to examine all this breaks down. While this is admittedly not my area of expertise, it seems obvious to me that if one seriously wants to examine sex work as exploitive because it transforms the workers into a commodity to be bought and sold, usually at the hands of grossly more wealthy and hence powerful consumers, then is is more accurate to pin the problem in this case, at least, as capitalism, not so much patriarchy. And that it would probably be more helpful to shift one's central focus to a socialist or at least socio-economic lens (i.e. talk about class, work and money in general) than one dealing quite so centrally with male-female power dynamics, here at least.

There's a lot to respond to in this post, but I'm only going to go with this for the moment.

In my post about the Duke gang-rape, I mentioned this and I mention it all the time when radfems point out how "degrading" and "dangerous" sex work is: construction is literally the most dangerous legal job around. There is a system, and call me crazy but it can't just be Patriarchy, responsible for making the best-paying jobs available to people without connections or education also the most dangerous. Does this vary by gender? Of course, doesn't most everything?

Oh, and yes: I don't think you have to love prostitution to want to see it decriminalized. Your "pro-choice" example is a good one, I always think drugs- even if you hate them, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't send one quarter of young Black men to jail over it?

Anthony Kennerson said...

WOW, Belle. Just simply, WOW.

It's so gratifying to know that someone finally freakin' gets it about what drives the reaction on most of the Left against sexual liberation..both in the sense of their own personal assimilation of the dominant conservative sexual ideologies (even as they claim opposition to them), and the political sense of demonizing and isolating sex radical Left thinkers and activists as beyond the pale and irrelevant.

If I didn't have to go to work soon, there would be so much that I could write about this..but you've pretty much said what I personally believe is the root of the issue of sex work and the ambivalance (if not total hostility and disgust) that far too many activists show towards sexual heretics.

Well done and done well, Belle...I'm linking this over at the SmackChron.

Anthony

Bitch | Lab said...

I remembered where I read the persuasive rant but I ultimately saw red when I thought about the women I knew who could have used unionization and the sex workers (strippers) etc. who could have had a slightly better life without the stigma. It was at Lucky White Girl's blog.

So, you don't have to be into radical feminims in any overt way.

Bitch | Lab said...

"
but maybe, maaayyyybe, at least from the sex-pos side, what we're seeing is the good old process of "commodifying dissent" at work. Maybe what's happened in sex-pos is roughly equivalent to what happened with the riot grrl thing: from riot grrl to Spice Girls to Powerpuff Girls. and the neoradfems are reacting strongly against this not in *spite* of (some of their) youth, but BECAUSE of it. because people weren't around for the original Sex Wars, or even the days when Susie Bright and her few "sexpert" peers were saying stuff that *wasn't* at all mainstream, even in a large-scale counterculture way. and now we're reinventing the wheels within wheels within wheels..."


Well. Yes. But that always happens. I have a really good essay I'm going to scan. It's by Barbara Ehrenriech, circa 1981 I think. It was probably a precursor to her book, _Hearts of Men_.

She argues in the essay that feminists had a lousy theory of The Patriarchy because it saw the problem of women's oppression as located in the family/reproduction/sex.

The struggle for change, proceeding along those axes, resulted in -- voila! -- the recuperation of feminist demands such that they became useful to capitalism, reinforcing it, making it more powerful.

We would have faced severe economic decline had women not moved into the workforce ....

IT's good to have women in some positions of power: it keeps the rest of us in line (same has been said about racial struggles, too.)

It's quite could and part of that slew of articles I've been reading about why the concept of Patriarchy or even the socialist feminist attempt to theorize Patriarch + Capitalism both failed to do any such thing.

The next batch of reading has been on the limits of feminism b/c it really, when you think about it, lacks a theory of sex/sexuality that isn't enveloped in gender. Something like that anyway. :)

belledame222 said...

Oh, sure, listen, I'm not saying the Movement has like Lost the Purity of the Vision or whatnot. And I'm not dissing CAKE and suchlike either, especially (it's just not so much my area). I was just thrown by the notion that sex-pos feminism was *primarily* the purview of young, "mainstream" het chicks, and realizing that though I hadn't experienced it that way, yeah, that might in fact be the logical outcome after a few years' worth of the message(s) getting out there.

belledame222 said...

per theory, or at least how it relates to sex and gender: well, and also definitely I see gay/queer rights and feminism as inextricably intertwined, very tightly so.

my pal fastlad just posted on this t'other day:

http://fastlad.blogspot.com/2006/03/witchs-hammer.html

Bitch | Lab said...

I see them intertwined, too. The queer theorists, though, we often born out of the struggle to get away from a feminist theory that was essentializing who women were, what women did, who they did it with -- which then ties into charges of a sex negativity in feminist theory.

this is really great reading stuphs and it's irking the hell out of me that so few people know.

congrats on being honored by Philobian and Blogcritics for this post by the way!

belledame222 said...

oh, thanks for the heads-up: had no idea.

EL said...

I just wanted to say Congrats and you deserve it on the Blogcritics thing.

Blackamazon said...

tblblI'm writing a longer response to this greatpost but belle has a big part of what the problem is. As a nerd I know that older sex pos isnt just the cake parties and that crap but as a younger woman . Looking at what passes for sex positive feminism and the ease at which it gets dispensed . Going to a n elite factory for the leaders of tomorrow the new sexpositive rads are not just bad but elitist classist snobish and racist that being a part of the movement to me is secondary to the other parts of my political radical artistic identity that not only do i want to seperate i fell it is necessary As a person in this part of the movements evolution to be actively anti . IF that makes a lick of sense

jean said...

“Going to a n elite factory for the leaders of tomorrow the new sexpositive rads are not just bad but elitist classist snobish and racist that being a part of the movement to me is secondary to the other parts of my political radical artistic identity that not only do i want to seperate i fell it is necessary As a person in this part of the movements evolution to be actively anti . IF that makes a lick of sense”


Makes total sense, actually. Makes so much sense that I actually cringe whenever I see the words ‘sex positive’ because I automatically think exactly this, also automatically think about the commodification of dissent, a notion which I have lost all patience for in terms of people that still think anything else will happen.

belledame222 said...

Yeah, I hear ya.

'course, I have similar knee-jerk/eyeroll responses to "radical" (anything, lately), sometimes, and probably for similar reasons. the chic/poseur/clueless thing.

well, bottom line: walk your talk, is all.

Bitch | Lab said...

Years ago, Katha Pollit was rabbiting on about the evil push-up bra feminists. But you'll notice that, in her recent work, she's started seeing a lot more value in their feminism and has written positively about them. This would be because Katha decided to do some actual research and examine who really is calling themselves sex positive and third wave and what they are actually doing in their lives.

I suspect that might have been because Katah was given a ration of shit from people like Catherine Driscoll who actually work closely with young women and listen to them, rather than filtering it all through some lens where, as hooks has argued, has taught them to see other women constantly as the enemy and refuses to give young women the dignity of being human.

I'd rather deal with push up bra feminists that happy feminists bullshit any day of the week.

Bitch | Lab said...

correction: than "Happy Feminist's" bullshit...

belledame222 said...

I saw that she pushed a button.

I'd actually just given her props for what looked like a firm approach with what looked like a classic (MRA-type) energy sink, without really reading the bulk of the post. so, yeah: some laziness on my end as well, in that regard...

I dunno. blogland's kind of giving me hives at the moment; I think I may need a breather.

Jean said...

Oh, now I know that this isn’t representative of third wave and sex pos feminists, but—as bd points out, I get the same ‘ick’ factor from a lot of rads as well---I stayed away from even looking at it for a long time because of the poseur/chic thing. That sticks in my ass (like a baseball bat) about a lot of things, not just feminism. Anyhow, I’ve got to get my ass to Happy Feminist. I get out of it for a couple days and Bitch declares a week and everything. Damn.

trinity said...

I'm really taking a break from the blogosphere, but:

Right on.

For me, I think the flip side of "the personal is political" is "the political is personal." I don't see how ignoring the personal aspects of any of this is at all worthwhile. Theory is useful, but when it gets you to a place of "Oh, in practice I have to allow you to consent to that, but in theory I'm in a huff!" that... doesn't even mean anything, honestly.

If we don't have at least some vague way to link theory and practice, that to me is a sign of a problem in the theory. So it's not that people are right i theory about, say, eroticizing power and yet practice means we just can't get away from it, we pesky humans. Something's gone wrong with the theory when putting it into practice is often impossible even for those who believe deeply in it.

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