Saturday, February 28, 2009

I'm just bored of this massive asscramp by now, but I must say

big thank you to Natalia for calling out this bullshit. Ren (and again) and Trin and Dw3t-Hthr too, of course. And moving on to more interesting material, potentially, at SM-feminists.

Nothing more to say to Mr. and Mrs. Iconoclast to be, except that I presume then toasters as well as violet wands are off the registry? Damn.

ETA: I agree with this comment by Ernest Greene (over at Renegade's)

Though the social and political links between BDSM and queer cultures may have unraveled a bit, you still can't bash one without bashing the other, as both arise out of the same need to be understood as authentic and inherent definitions of sexual identities rather than as the hateful projections of those who abhor them.

Just as there are abusive relationships among gay people, there are abusive relationships among BDSM people, but no decent, rational observer builds a loathing of an entire sub-culture on the basis of a few pathological examples.

That way of thinking is common to both gay bashers and BDSM bashers, and ND and her pals demonstrate this in spades, pardon the pun.

The common struggle shared by gay and BDSM people is for the right to be who you are and love who, and how, you love without risking exactly the kind of organized opprobrium to which ND and her merry band have subjected us all day in and day out ad nauseum.

She can declare herself something other than a homophobe and her loyal acolytes can rush in to trash anyone who dares call her out for acting like one, but the song remains the same, regardless of the singer or the intended audience.

You either do or do not despise people because of their sexual orientations, regardless of how ethically those orientations are expressed. If the former, you may not be a homophobe but you're no better. If the latter, you're some kind of humanist and can fairly claim a measure of tolerance for diversity.

and then, too, of course, you don't even have to search very long among those same loyal acolytes to find overtly homophobic crap like this. Perhaps not voiced so blatantly by many, but how often challenged? I recall "faggot" (used unambiguously as a slur, yes) go (largely, if not totally-I don't remember, can't dig up the link now) unremarked upon at a Big Radfem Site at least one other time.

There's more to say, and I know I've already said about some of it, about the rather strange position Teh Gay (even the word choice here matters, is different from either "queer" or "lesbian," much less others, but I'm using it for now) has among...well. Hm.

Do I say feminism as a whole? That's a whole nother post. Do I focus on this narrow band of idiots again? I've done it before. Too often.

Just a general note, then, apply as you will: In general, lesbian is strangely positioned within radical-influenced-feminism. Often sort of romanticized and erased at the same time. Appropriated, if you will. Especially when it comes, of course, to Teh Sex.

And separately, perhaps, of course by now most good liberals/Dems/progressives (a lot of others as well, at least publicly) know you don't overtly gay bash any more than you engage in any of the other oppressions that of course no one -really- does except people wearing white sheets or committing crimes. Homophobia is bad mkay. Duh. Next?


Except for: kind of really still there, same as everything else. See: the recent femisphere implosion part XXVII over racism for just one example. See: ableism run rampant all over the fucking place. See: well, and then there's the transphobia, which I could apply some similar etiological parallels wrt gender with queer sexuality as EG is making wrt kink and queer sexuality. Have done, more or less. i.e. yes there's transphobia w/in LGB/queer as well as feminism as well as everywhere; yes, trans =! homoseckshul...and individual trans homophobes too, sure. But, as with kink in its respective way: the language, the arguments, the rationalizations, they always seem VERY familiar. Too familiar to ignore, or even not take personally. I mean even more so than in other oppressions that I don't happen to share, even though there's a good argument that there are fundamental patterns to and reasons for for all of them, and that kick in the gut feeling -should- be the same regardless.

But I digress.

Back to kink and queer sexualities, then:

What EG is talking about is what's always been at the core of why I've ID'd with "sex positive" feminism, even though by now the phrase hits my teeth the way a lot of platitudinous New Agey stuff does, for similar reasons: it's not that simple, and it's certainly not all that relentlessly cheery or feel good, fuck knows.

To wit:

At the end of the day, despite the "pornsick" culture some people like to rabbit about, how TERRIBLE, all this deviancy and degeneracy...fact is, "normative" sex, and the punishment for transgressors thereof, is an axis of oppression of its own.

Over and beyond, or more accurately I suppose intersecting with, the piece about transgressing what's considered proper for one's assigned gender/sex.

I mean, they're hard to disentangle altogether. For damn sure, you can have homophobia/het priv operating within a kinky context. Ditto plain' ol sexism. Never even mind racism, classism, ableism, etc. etc.

But. Sex negativity, then, which is a phrase I -do- still keep, even if adopting its natural converse gives me wincey feelings, because it is an entirely valid concept, and no, it is not limited to, nor originated with, any kind of feminism. Is in fact anti-feminist at its core, I would say, which is the other reason I've been so involved in the Endless Wars.

It's a strand, at least, in itself. Winds itself through homophobia and sexism and everything else as well, even as those things wend themselves through the sex-negativity.

But that's why the arguments feel so familiar. Because they ARE.

And while you might hairsplit about, o well some of my best friends are yadda yadda, I don't care what they do in bed as long as they don't do THAT, or--gosh, this bit wasn't at -all- familiar--*talk about it at work.* (which naturally none of us pervs can help doing, -flaunting it.-)

...doesn't matter. Shoe fits, ND and co. Wear it well. And if you don't like it, consider changing your behavior. At least to the point of shutting up and listening for a while.

It's certainly the least one could ask considering all you're demanding from other people who have more on their plates without the added burden of your assholery.

ETA again: via trin, yeah, people really should read this post. This one too, for that matter.


GallingGalla said...

Nine Douche. that's what i'm calling her from now on.

EthylBenzene said...

I really think you need to examine your asscramp.

DaisyDeadhead said...

My comment is still in moderation at ND's. It was terribly polite, too.

I'll let you know.

DaisyDeadhead said...

She okayed my comment! :)

Kristin said...

Yeah, seriously, they have a stronger stomach than me, that's for damn sure. I just wonder if ND would go away if we all ignored it? I don't know... Ick ick ick... Does *anyone* take her seriously?

Kristin said...

Heh, yeah, I love the Mr. and Mrs. Iconoclast bit too. 's pretty hilarious, that. "I am an iconoclast" is not the kind of thing most people feel the need to point out. It's right up there along with, "I'm a kind and compassionate person."

belledame222 said...

I sure don't. It's classic troll though innit.

"Attention, attention must be paid." and sooner or later, even though you -swore- you wouldn't...

There's a lot of it about, that.

belledame222 said...

slip. Yeah, I know, that's the other part, it's too priceless. And I mean, it's like: lookit, I certainly don't give a fuck if you indulge that particular privilege or not, it's open to you whether you choose to partake or not, after all, your abstaining of itself wouldn't make a difference in anyone else's life, better you should just stop beating yourself up about it and go do some work for marriage equality or something.

But the "I'm an iconoclast, and so's m'husband!" was too rich to pass up, sorry. She certainly is fond of herself.

Kristin said...

"There's a lot of it about, that."

Goddamn mentality is fucking ubiquitous.

belledame222 said...

Ehtyl: *snort*

Kristin said...

"Attention, attention must be paid." and sooner or later, even though you -swore- you wouldn't..."

Yeah, with ND, the thing is... The kind of hate speech she's been spouting about makes it hard to ignore her as well as... I don't know... I always wonder if it's best to just...ignore the venom or engage it? I haven't figured out the best strategy in that regard yet. I do, however, wish that ND would stop calling herself a "progressive" or an "ally." Fuck that.

belledame222 said...

Yeah, well that's similar to how I felt with Heart. It becomes a question of: is anyone besides the choir paying any attention to this shit, or not? The answer isn't always clear. Certainly when Heart pulls shit like she did with Little Light way back when, that was something that needed to be shut down fast and hard. Or when a fuckwit like mAndrea gets linked in the feminist Carnival.

but, y'know, for all that it's hugely disingenuous that she's now whining just-my-opinion coz it's my own blog 'n' stuff, fact is, it's sort of true to the extent of if it's -only- on her blog, and -if- no one but the usual suspects are taking her seriously or linking or whatever, then yeah, if we go engage it's kind of on us. certainly that's true of someone like Polly WHosit or mAsshat. I'm just not sure how it stands with ND.

Kristin said...

"fact is, it's sort of true to the extent of if it's -only- on her blog, and -if- no one but the usual suspects are taking her seriously or linking or whatever, then yeah, if we go engage it's kind of on us."

Yeah, agree, but then she goes over to Ren's blog and starts pulling that crap, so I do start wonder if we could be helpful there... But some people... You know how, with some people, criticism just makes them MORE DETERMINED to fuck you off? That's the feeling I'm getting with ND, honestly.

Dw3t-Hthr said...

I'm not interested in abuse, so I don't go over to the blogs of people like that and post and expose my potential vulnerabilities directly, but I do respond, and I do link. If the flock of buzzards want to come over and try to reply to me, I won't say they're welcome, but their lies and sick sexual fantasies are not going unrefuted.

So, for example, on this thing, an age ago I wrote this in response to ND's original "Sexual equivalent to renfaire" thing, just because it was so wacky. And when it actually blew up, I did a lot of reading, and discovered that for pretty much every damn thing that crowd was saying, I'd replied to it before. Except for the "d/s is introduced to poor vulnerable women who don't know better and are coerced into it by wicked wicked menz" thing, that I hadn't replied to directly. And I finally snapped and braindumped what results from examining my goddamn sexuality, too, boring though it may be.

All of this stuff is at some level engaged with the monstrosity they're trying to perpetrate, but it's also part of my ongoing narrative of talking about this stuff. I'll refute the idiocy in my own space and on my own time. And argue with jackasses who show up, not that any of them has had the huevos to actually read and respond to substantive critique of their bullshit.

belledame222 said...

Yeah, that's the feeling I'm getting with ND as well. And, I know she's posting at Ren's, but at this point it feels like a bit of a chicken and egg scenario, you know? Ren addresses her, she addresses Ren, or the other way around. I haven't been keeping up, and I can't speak for Ren. I do know I had zero interest in trying to talk to her, ND. I am gathering that maybe Trin and Ren and Natalia were talking to her because saw glimmers of hope somewhere in there, which are now gone. I could be wrong.

belledame222 said...

slip, left the computer and came back. Yeah, D, that makes sense as well. I...go back and forth. I mean I just added a piece to this post, and I'm mulling over another post expounding on the homophobia piece of this, esp. wrt gay men, because I think it's been underaddressed in these circles. It keeps getting off rail in my head. Maybe later.

But...yeah, I dunno; I mean, like, yeah I still think it's important to call out transphobia, because there are multiple manifestations of it; but when it comes to mAsshat specifically, I try to just ignore because she -is- such an obvious pure troll. ND comes off as more plausible--certainly smarter, although fuck knows not the supragenius she seems to think she is (that's another reason I don't read or reply, I can't even deal with the smug gittery)--but, increasingly it is seeming like she does just mostly boil down to Energy Creature.

I mean I finally decided the same thing about Twisty as well, even though she's a lot more influential; it's just, how many times can you say the same thing about the same asshole making the same stupid ass arguments?

Mostly I guess I feel like I've processed this shit to death online, meta and personal; but yeah, I expect I have more posts in me if it comes to it. It's just, sooner or later I start feeling like I'm trapped on 'It's A Small World," yanno? Only toxic.

belledame222 said...

anyway I responded to her, ND, at fair length at Natalia's. and made some remarks at Ren's and Trin's as well. And if she shows up here, well...

Dw3t-Hthr said...

The good thing about the occasional run-in with an Energy Creature is the glorious writing that some people get out of responding to it.

But even given that, I mean, one of my responses to the Energy Creature was basically a compilation of links to stuff I'd already written and a snarky, "Do your fucking research."

belledame222 said...

oh yeah, that was always the draw, or one of them. like pearls from sand in an oyster or some shit like that.

just not feeling as fired up as I have in the past. although you never know, I may come out with a volume or so tomorrow.

belledame222 said...

also, I tend increasingly to run through particular assholes more quickly because if there's one thing I am confident the universe will never run out of, it's assholes. There will always be a new asshole; I don't feel obligated to keep going back to the same source if I don't find them sufficiently interesting or worth the levels of toxins to draw inspiration.

ND herself, I think her fifteen minutes are up, pretty much.

Anonymous said...

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