Tuesday, February 10, 2009

Oh, how much have I not missed this

Catching up a bit with my usual blogs, I must've missed this beaut captured by Renegade the first time around:

I think that anal sex is also a good way of saying, "I hate myself." I work in the microbiology department of a medical lab, but you don't need to be a microbiologist to know that the rectum is a filthy place. Here's my favorite statistic: 60% of the mass of a turd is bacteria.

Why would a man put his penis, which is supposedly his crowning glory, into a shithole? Seriously. Oh, don't try criticizing anal sex for any reason on a liberal site, all the faggots will cry, "Homophobe!" and they'll eat you alive. I don't care. It's disgusting and filthy, not to mention not good for the tissues back there. There's a media doctor here in the states who's always on about rectal prolapse and anal sex.

I believe that men wouldn't put their dicks in such a disgusting place if they didn't feel that they were disgusting themselves. They probably just extrapolate from that that if someone consents to anal sex, they are just as disgusting, too, and therefore, deserve any bad treatment they wish to dish out. And women consent to stuff like that because they have low self-esteem which was caused by men in the first place because they felt bad about themselves. - bonobobabe

Fail. Just...so much fail I can't fail even fail say anything fail but fail. FAIL.

and yes, that's real, and no, that isn't a fundamentalist religious zealot, that is, you guessed it, a putative radical feminist.

nice moniker there, too, not too ironic.

uh, I said -content-, didn't I? yeah. soon, really. Just...yeah.


ETA Regardez! Encore une faile de plus! via Trinity:

on January 31, 2009 at 11:00 pm bonobobabe
I fucking hate the concept of consent. The human mind is a pretty fragile thing, and you can get people to “consent” to most anything. It’s fucking meaningless.

That Glenn Marcus is a sick motherfucker. BDSM is abuse, pure and simple. If a person gets off on giving or getting abused, that person has something wrong with them mentally. Seriously. They need therapy.

It used to be a couple decades ago, people were willing to see themselves as fucked up. Everyone was in therapy. Now everyone thinks they are just fine and dandy as they are. “I eat shit. I’m awesome! I dress up in a teddy bear costume. I’m special! I like watching women in high heels step on mice and kill them. I’m a living miracle!”

Fuck the lot of them.

on January 31, 2009 at 11:54 pm delphyne

I feel the same way about consent bonobobabe. Consent to me seems like a concept invented by rapists - getting people to agree to be abused or raped and then blamed for what the rapist/abuser did to them.

Either you want something or you don’t. Consent is just another way of saying someone acquiesed to somebody else’s ideas and desires.

Thanks for the suggestion of therapy, though, fr srs. I'll have to keep that in mind, as I enter my ninth year of personal and/or group therapy and my second semester of training to oh noez become a therapist myself. And when I finally do hang out my shingle, as I join this organization, I'll keep y'all in my heart, for truly.

Meanwhile, among other things, I've now relinquished the last bit of guilt I was holding wrt (no doubt accurate in some cases) accusations of ableism for doing this very thing, i.e. consigning people to the wastebasket of fuckeduppitude because of things I didn't understand and/or my own personal shit. At least as such accusations have been raised by delphyne, in particular. Yeah, tu quoque doesn't make it right, but hey, it's not like we're actually engaging, here; I take the critiques on board, and as for the rest, this shit, for a shining example: yer still an asshole. (Yes, I can say that. It's my lunch hour).

Beyond that, there's just a shitload of arguments I could be taking up with this--oh, where to begin really--probably with that whole "consent was invented by rapists (!!) business, but there's just so *much* to choose from (Glenn Marcus=teddy bear fetishism=buttsecks! the real problem with nowadays is -too much self-esteem-, especially sexually!)

--but I'm tired and I'm busy and other people are already on it and I kind of can't be arsed right now and I've been to this rodeo a dozen times by now and it never changes and it's not like the people who most need to hear it ever will in the next kalpa anyway.

So, here is another FAIL icon instead.


Alon Levy said...

You should put "The courts are forcing gay rights on us" and "Homosexuality is against Heartland values" somewhere on the Bingo chart.

On another note, the anti-anal sex statistic is just wrong. Feces are 10% bacteria by mass, which a condom can block, and a clean anus has surprisingly little fecal matter in it. But I guess we all knew that, apart from Bonobobabe...

O said...

What the...I can't...but...and then...GAH.

SO MUCH WRONG. I can't stand it.

Evn said...

I was in the grocery store yesterday, and there was a clearance shelf with a bunch of Christmas decorations on it, along with several boxes of Trojan Magnum condoms. At the time, I just kind of went, "Wow, that's a really odd combination of products. Now, however, I want to go back and buy all the condoms, and when the checkout person gets kind of uncomfortable because I'm buying, like, twenty boxes of "extra large" prophylactics, I'm going to say, "Can't be too careful. After all, 60% of the mass of a turd is bacteria."

polerin said...

Oh don't get me started on her.

Aster said...

"...which is supposedly his crowning glory."

Somehow I never expected to hear this phrase from a radical feminist.

This moves from 'all men are sexist pigs' to 'all men ought to be sexist pigs if it will help them hate other people on sexist pig grounds'. Or something.

beylita said...

Those comments remind me of the people angry over the article on ranking feminist blogs based on links because there were blogs on there that were "anti-feminist" and therefore the ethodology must be suspect.

belledame222 said...

-snicker- i can't imagine -which- blogs they had in mind...

and you know, whereas I was having a total peak experience over having been given a numerical affirmation by this outfit I wasn't aware of before and has had no concrete impact on my life or even my blog's traffic that I'm aware of, I am now crushed beyond measure to realize that Some People Do Not Approve, and shall go weep and bite my pillow accordingly. GBCW

Trinity said...

i heart how they're all like "bdsm people love gleen marcus"

uh, no we don't. i've heard all of one person defend him, ever, and i'm willing to bet you my left lung i wasn't the only person in the room who was severely creeped out at the time.

belledame222 said...

I have to admit I'd forgotten who he was, till I wiki'd. but, yeah. Fursuits: Glenn Marcus. Fursuits: Glenn Marcus.

not to forget of course TEH ANAL SECKS O NOEZ

i mean! of COURSE "consent" isn't valid! no sane woman would ever do such things, because they're inherently filthy and nasty! clearly, therefore any "consent" is meaningless. QED and duh.

GallingGalla said...

I know I shouldn't be doing this, self-identity and all that, but I have to ask:

bonobobabe and delphyne, are you men?

cos you sure know how to hate on women with the best of 'em.

"feminists", pffft.

belledame222 said...

they're fookin hateful eejits, that's all I know or care

Falyne said...

To give that argument the absolute ultimate little bit of slack that it really doesn't deserve... I do know a guy who has expressed that his great fondness for anal sex comes largely from how 'dirty' it is and how awesome it is that a woman would 'let him degrade her like that'. Dude's a Catholic with a whole lot of repressed/rebel-against-repression sexuality issues.

I don't know that I'd want to have anal sex with him, entirely because of his having that attitude, despite us generally having good chemistry and even though, to me, the ass is just another erogenous zone that everybody needs to get the fuck over. So, obviously, I'm diametrically opposed to the main thrust (heh) of bonobobabe's argument, I'm inclined to point out that, if you tilt your head and squint, she makes an unintentional good point about how the social views of anal sex are problematic and lead to completely unnecessary fucked-up-in-a-bad-way-ness.

But, yeah, that's still an epic amount of fail there.

belledame222 said...

well, no, respectfully: there's -observing- that (other) people hold that view, which is what you're doing; and then there's simply embracing that idea wholesale and uncritically onesownself. I mean, she's not just the president of that club, she's also a member, know what I'm saying?

and, yeah, sorry, use of the word "faggots" (esp. in the context she did there) automatically erases any slack in my book.

belledame222 said...

also--yeah, I dunno, wrt the guy you're talking about. I mean, first of all, sure, totally it doesn't sound like you'd be a good match, with him. and maybe he really isnt being very conscious or healthy about his desires. lots of people aren't, for sure.

but, truth is, some people do get off on the "dirty" aspect of it, and you know, as long as they're aware that that just is what it is, a fetish, and that you can still respect yourself and/or your partner in the morning, once out of that "zone," and you're doing it with a partner who shares that, of course--well, hey, follow your kinky bliss, you know?

I mean, yeah, it's complicated, I realize, because that does get into another whole area--I *would* personally classify that fetishization of the ass as "dirty" or "taboo" as "kinky," even though it might be exactly the same act as the "vanilla" person who's just doing it because it feels good, physically, and kink is always hard to understand when it isn't your own kink.

Hell, I can't say I "get" this one on a visceral level; like you, to me, the butt is just a butt, by and large.

otoh I know I have some kinks that'd be equally inexplicable to other people who don't share it, and certainly one could armchair psychoanalyze/socially critique their origins from here till Christmas. hell, I could and have done it myself, frankly probably more insightfully than most other people looking in as an outsider--but, at the end of the day, understanding where the turn-on comes from kind of...doesn't really change anything. You know?

belledame222 said...

...and it suddenly occurs to me to wonder how much I might have contributed to Reclusive Leftist's rating there, what with all the links and PUMA ranting here and at PPW.

well, anyway,

"you're welcome."

Nick Kiddle said...

Does this obsession with the exact composition of a turd rise to the level of a fetish, do you think?

Also, did she seriously mean to suggest that the world was a better place when people saw their sexual differences as fuckedupness that they needed "therapy" for (scare quotes 'cause I'm not sure how therapeutic it would actually be) than now that there's some self-acceptance going on?

DaisyDeadhead said...

Wow... that is almost exactly word-for-word what Howard Stern once said. I mean, exactly!

Hilarious coincidence, huh?

belledame222 said...

Nick: yes, I do believe that is what she meant to say. not too fundie. y'know, corporal punishment is great, too, as long as you don't ever end up eroticizing it or anything.

(yes yes I know, radical vegan ecofem, no doubt against corporal punishment and all cruelty--hell, I think she's against 'breeding' in the first place, so, problem solved)

Alon Levy said...

Who the hell is Glenn Marcus?

And, whatever he did, why the hell is he proof that post-1990s' America is a country where people don't think they need therapy?

belledame222 said...

I had to look him up as well, although once I did I then remembered people talking about this fairly recently: in the news last year/the year before, flared up at Ren's and so on at least once


basically they're not using him to bolster the out to lunch business about therapy so much as their idea that all BDSM practioners are like and/or defend this guy, which is further proof of the Badness.

you know, sort of in the same way that Kyle Payne and Evelyn Giobbe proves that all radical feminists are secretly rapists/molesters. oh, wait, I forgot, -that's- totally unfair...

Renegade Evolution said...

damn those anti-feminist blogs...damn them all to hell.

we have cookies.

and buttsex.

killjoy said...

Can I ask what may be a dumb question? One thing that initially appealed to me about radfem theory was that it put a name on something I've experienced and a lot of my friends have also experienced -- namely, being manipulated or wheedled into giving consent, and having sexual experiences that were consensual, but unwanted and pretty miserable. And I've read lots of similar accounts from others, especially het teenage girls. I think this is actually very common. And while I don't think this is criminal, I don't think it's good, either.

So to some extent I do get a little anxious at the word "consent" -- not because some acts are Just Wrong Dammit, but because it creates a binary where I'm not sure one really exists, and because it conflates criminal law and morality. How does one deal with that?

belledame222 said...

I...think there's no neat one-application-fits-all way to resolve that, just to note that yeah, there are subtle forms of coercion and manipulation.

One problem with all these discussions online is people end up conflating the legal realm with the ethical one. Like, if it's not clear enough to be found someone was guilty of a specific crime in a court of law, there's nothing wrong with it. Which...no.

Lindsay said...

Killjoy, my thoughts on these issues are probably fairly similar to yours.

I consider myself a radical feminist, mostly because radical-feminist theories about rape culture helped explain so many things for me.

I also agree 100% with you that consent can be extorted, wheedled, nagged, badgered or otherwise wrested from unwilling women. I have no problem with calling that rape, though.

And no, I don't think there can be a clear, objective line between Rape and Not-Rape outside of the woman's own attitude toward it. Which makes the claims by some radfems that *NO* woman can ever give consent in a rape culture problematic.

I like that they're calling attention to the subtler forms of coercion, and the role that the larger culture plays in undermining women's ability to say "Yes" or "No" for themselves, but I do not agree that no woman can ever say "Yes" wholeheartedly and uncoercedly.

I've had sexual contact that I was badgered into having, and I've had sexual contact that I've chosen. They were very easy to tell apart.

belledame222 said...

hey, welcome, Lindsay.

Anonymous said...

Falyne, I had a partner who asked me if I liked anal because I was a "bad girl", which was funny because I'm so tame. Turns out that being "a very bad, dirty girl" was his ex-wife's excuse, due to her overwhelming fucked-up-ness and repressed sexual issues.

I said "no, I just like it, please continue."

That Bingo card is FABULOUS. I will be making copies and handing them out to friends. I hope that's okay. Spreadin' the love and all.

belledame222 said...

oh, it's fine by me, I didn't invent it, sorry if--I should've linked back to where I found it, not sure who the author is at this point...I fail.

belledame222 said...

'k, it's by a Willie Hewes, who released it for common share use under the something or other, anyway.

killjoy said...

I like that they're calling attention to the subtler forms of coercion, and the role that the larger culture plays in undermining women's ability to say "Yes" or "No" for themselves, but I do not agree that no woman can ever say "Yes" wholeheartedly and uncoercedly.

Oh no. I mean, that gets into angels-on-a-pin territory. And I too have had experiences that were fabulous, moar plz, etc., including experiences with things I'm not "supposed" to enjoy according to whoever in the radfemosphere.

I think it's just this word "consent" that becomes a problem, because it can be used as a synonym for "compliance" or "acquiescence" -- which are legally fine but ethically questionable. It's unfortunate we don't have a better word; radical feminists have tried for others but without a whole lot of success.

But in this context, I agree, saying that women can never *really* willingly participate in acts X, Y, and Z is just stupid.