Wednesday, April 23, 2008

as per the latest shitstorm:

y'know, this thing.

All I have to say is, both the OP and many of the responses put me in mind of nothing so much as this:

1) omg, "boobs!" without shame!
2) omg, what a boob! shame!



antiprincess said...

ferget it jake, it's penguincontown...

Cheshire said...

A perfect reply.

Jay said...

I read about the event yesterday, and just scanned through the comments - my jaw hit the floor at one commenter who said "If someone I wasn't dating asked to touch my boobs, I'd kick him in the crotch. LIKE ANY DECENT WOMAN WOULD".


So yay for violence? And women are only "decent" if they behave like her? Violently?

Did she think that saying that was all empowered and feminist???

Women had different feelings about it. Because women are, y'know, allowed to be different from one another. Which is why there were buttons displaying their choice.

Celia said...

His post was damn creepy, though, and I think anyone would have the right to object to that kind of behaviour. And the right to object to being considered inadequate because they don't want sexuality thrust upon them at any moment.

And I cannot believe that there was no chance of there being men who would take whatever it pleased them to without asking or caring about colours of badges. But hey, I'm a fucking prude and slut-shaming or some shit.

belledame222 said...

mkay, first of all, not calling anyone a prude here. I totally don't blame anyone for not wanting to be a part of something like that. And I agree that the original post was well, yeah, kind of creepy. Other women who aren't necessarily against public group gropes or whatnot in principle have explained why. if I can be bothered I'll fetch up some links I tend to agree with. maybe.

That said, I guess I've just been in enough situations that were -sort of- organized along similar principles--*not* exclusively "men touching women's breasts," but y'know, yeah, it -is- okay to ask "May I ____" to someone you aren't dating or even know, with the confidence that a simple "no" will suffice and be respected, no 'nad kicking necessary or tolerated.

And you know, -if- the people organizing the event and hopefully sufficient of the participants are evolved enough to understand how to maintain those boundaries and explain it clearly to those who don't, then actually, yeah, it can be rather refreshingly healthy, fun, and -more- respectful of boundaries than your average subtext-reliant bar or what you will.

-However-, and this is another point where I think a lot of women, especially those who've been to cons and suchlike, do have a point: if the organizers etc. -don't- know what they're doing, then yeah, there's a good chance that a number of people are going to have particularly unpleasant experiences, boundaries violated with no recourse, and so on and so forth. And that the way this was described doesn't really inspire confidence in a lot of women.

and, I have to admit, the "badges for kicking in the nads" thing did make me laugh, but that is because I am a mean bastard and actually have fairly low tolerance for clueless/aggressive straight men in "mixed" play party situations, and yeah, shit happens, and yeah, it's mostly from said clueless/agressive staight men.

that -also- -also- said: on the whole, though, I'm just sort of depressed that it's THIS frigging explosive -all over teh Interwebs-. and to me,as with the blowjob wars, what that alone says is that talking about this shit -at all- is a -really big fucking deal- to a lot of people; otherwise it wouldn't be this, well, explosive?

and then you do get comments like the one Jay noted, and it's like: I gotta say, and at this point I've probably alienated absolutely everybody, I do have some sympathy for the clueless/geeky hetboy. Because in fact actually yeah, there -is- a lot of shame around even -desiring-; and while hetboy desires in theory are more openly encouraged than lesbian desires, you know, there's enough left of this sort of "how DARE you! that's DISGUSTING!"--which gets all tangled up in imo womens' -totally legitimate- desire to protect their boundaries and not really feeling like they CAN say "no," hence the (arguably) overreaction--

but at the same time, there's sexism, and there's also sex-negativity, okay. And while yeah, I think the guy's a garden variety not-very-socialized "sexism? vas is das sexism?"...geekboy, okay...I also think that the gleeful sort of "stomp the pervert!" thing is, well, a bit depressing.

especially since there wasn't anything -near- like this reaction to, say, the creepy fratboy "Cuttin' Up Hookers" T-shirt guy; I mean within the sites that were covering it, yes, but it's like: okay, expression of open hostility toward a certain class of women, well, kind of par for the course; -this- though, well, I never!...

or something, I'm sure it just resonated with more women who're more likely to have had their tits unwantedly groped than had "hooker" friends who were actually -cut up.-

still, though.


i said i wasn't going to comment on it, so i'm totally full of shit.

belledame222 said...

btw, welcome to Jay and to Celia, if I hadn't already said.

belledame222 said...

but like, say, I find myself nodding along to a lot of this thread. (found through trackback)

and I didn't realize the guy was arguing back and digging himself in deeper and -that's- why it's become this fuckoff Webz explosion, hadn't followed it that far tbh, but yeah, that makes total sense. Isn't that nearly always the way? -sigh-

Aishwarya said...

Sigh. I was hoping to ignore the whole thing but it fits perfectly into a post I've been wanting to write for a while now, so I think I'm just going to go ahead with it.

Also, you are excellent.

belledame222 said...

back atcha, lady.

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