Wednesday, August 29, 2007

"Sublimation"

As per a comment here: (waves merrily)

Dear tayefeth, whoever the hell you are:

HEY LADY! YA WANNA FUCK?!?!?!

I mean, only as a ruse to take your MAY-UN, of course.

Oh, wait --I already was a lesbian. Dunno about the sublimation. Sounds kinky, though.

And you, well, YOU'RE a genius.

xoxoxo, babes! keep digging, and drop us all a postcard when you get to China, will you?

48 comments:

Trinity said...

....what. the. hell.

excuse me, my brain just exploded. what the?

I can't even parse that. I think they're saying we want to have sex with them.

....what now?

Trinity said...

(and why exactly would a lesbian have a eunuch in her harem, anyway?)

Trinity said...

also: what happened to us being so blinded by the need for cock that we're no longer feminists?

...now we're.... uh... lesbians.

my head, how it spins.

Renegade Evolution said...

Plz, I only fuck hawt porny looking girlz!

Oh, wait...

No, that's right. On the rare occasion I fuck girlz, they are pretty much hawt porny girlz.

Aw fuck, am I sublimated dude? Who really prefers fucking dudes?

What does it all mean!?

belledame222 said...

duh, they make the best Frappuccinos.

you know, I gotta tell you, I was waiting for something like that, some straight chick finally abandoning the "they're brainwashed man-enabling bimbos!!" or the uber-feminist "they wanna steal our MENZ!! o NOES!" which is amazing enough in itself, but sure enough:

"zomg let's call 'em LESBIANS! it's such an insult!"

and you know, just like the male feminists, we're really just in it for the objectification and the pussy. never mind the political lesbians you don't want to offend, ladies; they'll understand; -real- lesbian feminists don't actually get the hots for women, your honor is safe with them. But not with us. Take out your parasols and have at it!

oops, sorry, parasols are so femmey and girly, did I say that? well anyway I'm sure we all know they aren't -pink.- christina jesus forbid.

such radical anti-patriarchal thinking, it floors me, it truly do

belledame222 said...

eunuchs, that is. eunuchs make the best Frappuccinos.

this is beyond Bingo; someone needs some kind of four-dimensional cube Bingo to rack up all the points for this one. homophobia? check! femmephobia? check! lesbophobia? check! internalized misogyny? check! externalized misogyny? check!...

kactus said...

well, I know my mama wished I'd sublimated my lesbianism, but I just couldn't, not for all the dick in the world.

Renegade Evolution said...

well Belle, we could trade out swords for plowshares and make it parasols for pitchforks?

belledame222 said...

i like it.

a brief glance at wossname's lj reveals that she has a Spouse of some sort. no gender that i saw in the three or four seconds i was skimming; whoever it is she's procreated with hir, though.

and is very concerned about Other Peoples' Racist Thoughts.

Rootietoot said...

So I read that bit, and Wow. The constant vein of bitchy gossip that runs through comment after comment astonishes me. Something that starts out as a sensible post posing a sensible idea degrades into a 7th grade bathroom brawl with hair pulling and aspersion casting all around. These are adult women, right? With Serious Minds and Good Intentions? No wonder I stay home and pull weeds.
I am sad for them, but I can't summon any better feeling than that. Sad and contemptuous. And no, I'm not going to comment there, because I like being a non-target.

Renegade Evolution said...

RT: Now now, they are never, ever catty! Don't you KNOW that?

Trinity said...

A Feminist Wrinkle In Time: presenting the Bingo-Tesseract!

Trinity said...

"and you know, just like the male feminists, we're really just in it for the objectification and the pussy."

"...except for my eunuch. He's sweet and cuddly. His name is Nigel."

SallySunshine said...

HEY LADY! YA WANNA FUCK?!?!?!

heheheeh....belle you are so fun!

Trinity said...

". The constant vein of bitchy gossip that runs through comment after comment astonishes me. Something that starts out as a sensible post posing a sensible idea degrades into a 7th grade bathroom brawl with hair pulling and aspersion casting all around."

No kidding.

When Ren first posted, I somewhat expected the defensive "it's a strawfeminist that feminists don't like pretty girls!" whine... because there ARE some people who do seem to think "feminism" is about dissing "pretty" people. I expected people to miss Ren's point and not have the months of background that... well, YES, the very first insult some of the people who've decides she's the antifeminist Antichrist(ina) go for is "your fake body blah blan blah blah attention seeking blah blah blah fake blah blah ginger"

But I never expected it to turn THIS ridiculously seventh-grade.

YOu WANT BOYS! YOU WANT ME! YOU DON'T LIKE IT WHEN I CALL YOU NAMES! THAT'S IT YOU'RE OUT OF THE FEMINIST CLUB!

gag.

I'm still reeling that people tried to smack me down for reminding them of things like... reproductive rights and DV and the wage gap.

Oh how derailing of the true aims of feminism that is.

Yeah, if ignoring those things in favor of slagging off a sex worker and flattering yourself that women who expose your idiocy want to fuck you is "feminism", then they're right on when they say I'm not one.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Renegade Evolution said...

well, people always see it from THEIR side, you know?

I am sure the rad fems are more likely to hear the "hairy man hating dyke" comments, they remember them, they know who says them, and even if they are not directed pointedly AT them, they are there...

And yep, those are the ones they remember.

Where as me, well, I hear the "fake-titty freak whore" comments, and I remember them, pointed directly at me or not...

Because yeah, sometimes we all take shit personal, and even if you are insulting the process, well, whatever the process is, women who do, or do not, engage in that process/practice whatever, are gonna tend to take it personally on occassion.

Dw3t-Hthr said...

And I hear the "Your choice of housewifery over having a professional-class Real Job means you're a pawn of Teh Patriarchee" shit.

Trinity said...

*nods* That's true, Ren... but it's the same thing from either side.

A woman is either the "Hairy Lesbian" (undesirable, "frigid", etc) or the "Whore" (disgusting and fake for being sexual)

It's two sides of the exact same shit-stained coin. So why they get upset at someone like you I can't fathom. I mean, yes, we all see things through our lens... but being able to understand others' lenses is a virtue, not a vice.

Renegade Evolution said...

well, shit Trin, it's because I'm Evol and Haven't Seen The Light! That's why.

well, and that whole choice over sisterhood thing...

belledame222 said...

well, what we learn today is, not only are "whore" snarks okay when they're in the name of feminism, so are "dirty dyke" snarks.

*yesyesyes, it's ironic when THEY do it, i know. i know. and the fact that the anon brigade says the same damn thing i.e. they don't MEEEEN it, it's just a happy coincidence that those are the first things they reach for, well, don't take it personally or nuffin'.

at least the anons don't try to claim it's some sort of Uber-Politically-Awareness or whatever it is. they're...uh, trying to save some kid. and being assholes for the sake of it.

personally i kind of respect the latter most. at least it's straightforward.

Beylita said...

Absolutely right, Ren. I still fume about the thread at twisty's place immeidately after the blowjob war, where she dicided to post about some meal she ate and tacked on a comment at the end about her her waitresses lips were a little too full.

And the assmuption that it must be collagen injections and how the poor dear must be some kind of brainwashed drone crippled by her own lips. I think that was the first time I ever REALLY hated any of them, but I haven't stopped since.

belledame222 said...

eyeroll. yes, let's snark at the waitress for her appearance; and no, of course there's no hint of anything -besides- anti-collagen in noting that someone's lips are "too full," no, much less the person who's serving your hash. Up the Patriarchy!

Veronica said...

WOOT!

They've officially hit Mean Girls territory.

"Why are you so obsessed with me? Are you... a lesbian?"

Lis Riba said...

And I hear the "Your choice of housewifery over having a professional-class Real Job means you're a pawn of Teh Patriarchee" shit.

On the other hand, working a full-time job and having a househusband also makes me a pawn because I'm the one doing all the work.

It's truly a no-win situation. :)

[Yeah, I've been reading all these threadz, but delved into the instigating Feministe post *after* it had already been locked.]

Dw3t-Hthr said...

Whoa, Lis! Hi there! (You know me under a different name, the one who gave you the 'mental magpie' phrase to nick for your subtitle. ;) )

Now for a comment that dimly resembles having some substance:

And the assmuption that it must be collagen injections and how the poor dear must be some kind of brainwashed drone crippled by her own lips.

Heh. I watched a bunch of conversations when the first of the Lord of the Rings movies came out, in which a bunch of people were snarking off about collagen injections with regard to Liv Tyler.

Finally, someone said, "Uh, guys? You know who her father is, right?"

"No, who?"

*snrk*

Ravenmn said...

Somebody called Ren's friends "lesbians"? Too cool! I just wanna say, "Thank you to the academy for this honor and recognition of my achievement!"

zuzu said...

Zuh?

You know, anyone who doesn't think that there's some kind of penalty for being pretty missed the fact that Jill's discussion of her pubic grooming habits resulted in a huge blogwar, while mine, on the same blog, resulted in shrugs.

Granted, nobody knows precisely what I look like, but being older and fat gave me a pass on the feminist critique for waxing and/or coloring my pubes.

annalouise said...

That's 'cause if you're old or fat or a person of color or have a physical disability you don't count in these discussion.
I mean that pretty seriously. To talk about why some people would OMG! choose to adopt traditional beauty standards (or OMGhairyleggeddyke not adopt them)has to assume that that is even an option. It ain't an option for me.
That's why I'm trying to distance myself from the endless sniping about personal groom in the feminist internet. It's just the "pretty" girls whining at each other.

belledame222 said...

Lis! How you be?

Vanessa said...

That's 'cause if you're old or fat or a person of color or have a physical disability you don't count in these discussion.

Well see, that i have a problem with. Because I really don't see why I would get a pass on these things as someone who's overweight but someone who is "conventionally pretty," whatever that means this fashion season, would have to constrain themselves in their beauty rituals.

(Not saying you're in fact saying this, just using your comment as a jumping-off point.)

The natural conclusion to this argument would have "pretty" women scarring themselves so the rest of us don't feel outcompeted. Or, smart people getting purposeful brain damage. Or the naturally athletic crippling themselves.

belledame222 said...

Harrison Bergeron, anyone?

Renegade Evolution said...

this is going to sound way meaner than I mean it too, and I really don't want that, but fuck I've HAD it...

"It's just the "pretty" girls whining at each other."

No, it's not. One of the most beautiful women I have ever seen a photo of? Black Amazon. She's amazing. She's BEAUTIFUL, inside and out, in every way. In fact, when I think of "beautiful", she rather comes to mind. And its NOT about the pretty girls fighting, it's about, at least in my head, ACCEPTANCE for what rituals people do or do not choose to engage in. I have serious respect for women who don't play or who have given up the beauty game, because I know it has to be hard. But yeah, some of us still play, for a whole lot of various reasons, and frankly, I am fucking sick to death as being seen as an idiot for doing so.

I'm sorry if this is unjustly harsh, but I have had a looooong night, and I am in no mood to hear this kinda cant.

Vanessa said...

belle - THANK you...that's what I was trying to think of. It was right on the tip of my tongue, but all I could bring to mind was Bladerunner.

Confused my Harrisons, I guess.

Kim said...

I had to admit my eyes popped at that one.
"zomg let's call 'em LESBIANS! it's such an insult!"
Exactly. What'll be next? Homos? Gaylords? Carpet munchers? As for the sublimated business, it's just more proof that someone didn't do their homework.

Rootietoot said...

"And I hear the "Your choice of housewifery over having a professional-class Real Job means you're a pawn of Teh Patriarchee" shit. "

Hear hear hear hear hear!! Me n my modest skirts and practical haircut and *gasp* pink keds and *faint* 4 (count 'em!)male offspring Patriarchs in Training AND a man who's +6' and hairy!
That's why I don't exist. Lost cause and all. Ain't it grand!

sly civilian said...

to steal a line, there is no cannibalism in left blogistan.

perhaps i've wandered too far from home.

annalouise said...

" ..someone who is "conventionally pretty," whatever that means this fashion season, would have to constrain themselves in their beauty rituals."
I don't give a shit about what people do with their beautify rituals. But it makes sense (or internal logic at least) to make it a political issue if their women whose beauty rituals are being snarked have the option of fitting in with patriarchal beauty standards. Those of us who don't, don't really have a place in these discussion because no matter how I dress I will never get treated as sexually available/desirable by this culture and I don't get the relative free pass that some of these women get to deliberately not make myself presentable. Earnet college feminists in their outfits don't usually get looks of utter disgust that I would get in those same outfits.
Which is the fucked-upedness part. Suddenly a discussion about of disturbingly narrow the idea of what is beautiful and how important it is that we demand that women who don't fit in that narrow idea be recognized for how beautiful they are, it becomes an excuse for the same small group of women that overwhelmingly represent feminism in popular culture trying to hatefully one-up eachother on who can be the most non-fashionable (while following rules stricter than Vogue would ever dream of, of course).
It's the same damn stupid-ass thing that is like a threat through contemporary feminism: politics as fashion statement. Skinny white chick gets to grab herself some dreadlocks, baggy pants and an assortment of culturally appropriative jewelry and that's her "activism". Then she gets to pat herself on the bag about what a fucking rebel she is and look down her nose at those "sell-outs" in their miniskirts and high heels. Notice how the Ani DiFranco wannabe then doesn't actually have to do jack shit or think about anyone other than herself and how noble it her for her to personally rebel against patriarchy.
So, after all that, my point is that talking about "harrison bergeron" is just holding onto the idea that the personal fashion choices of privileged women actually count as political activism, which is what started all this nonsense in the beginning.

Lis Riba said...

To Dw3t-Hthr: Yes, with that context, I recognize you. I think that makes four handles I know you by, now...

To Belle re:Lis! How you be?
*Sigh...* Busier than I'd like to be.


BTW, just thinking about some of the stereotypes mentioned in this thread, I know at least 3 or 4 women who are both observant Jews (following the strictures to cover their hair and wear modest dress) and write explicit slash fiction.
Just further evidence one can't judge books by their covers.

Vanessa said...

annalouise - Yeah, I didn't mean to say that *you* were getting all Harrison Bergeron, but that others were trying to Harrison Bergeron themselves.

Which is pretty much what you were saying in your second comment. It's all so shallow, isn't it? It's politics of appearance, just like in middle school when wearing Oakley Frogskin sunglasses and Z. Cavaricci jeans said everything anyone needed to know about you. (Oh god, did I just date myself precisely?)

And the funny thing is, the patriarchy gets you anyway. If, say, Ren needs to get some Plan B and the pharmacists is some backwards god-botherer disinclined to dispense them, he's not going to see her stripper I.D. card and be all "Oh, I see you're a sex-pozzie sparklepony, I have your special pile right here. Only real women get oppressed by the patriarchy!"

You don't get a free pass for being 'porny.' And you don't escape it by being Harrison Bergeron-ed. So I say, wear whatever the hell you want to (and fuck however you want - blowjobs for all! - /do whatever however you want), and screw everyone else's opinion of it.

Renegade Evolution said...

Eh, sorry, my head is just sort of blown out at the moment. But I think sometimes, when these discussions come about, there is assumption that all of us who have been participating in them have always been fashionable, rich, pretty girls...and that is just not so.

Octogalore said...

"So, after all that, my point is that talking about "harrison bergeron" is just holding onto the idea that the personal fashion choices of privileged women actually count as political activism, which is what started all this nonsense in the beginning."

I missed where anyone said rebellious fashion choices = political activism?

belledame222 said...

i'm not sure we're all talking about the same thing/people at this point.

Trinity said...

"That's 'cause if you're old or fat or a person of color or have a physical disability you don't count in these discussion."

Dude.

Wow.

Notice that a woman with a physical disability, um, started the whole flamewar by quoting Ginmar?

Wonder who that could have been... I should hug her because she doesn't count.

*head* *fucking* *desk*

Lis Riba said...

[Pardon if I come across wrong; I put in a 12-hour workday so my reactions feel even more warped than usual.]
I think sometimes, when these discussions come about, there is assumption that all of us who have been participating in them have always been fashionable, rich, pretty girls...and that is just not so.

Oh definitely not. It's the accusations of being sexbots that always gets me, considering I really am effectively asexual in practice...

I remember an earlier dispute with Ginmar, in which I lamented how I wished I had the powers my "enemies" attributed to me. [I think in that case, she accused me of sending minions to attack her.]
Likewise, I wish I were having all the sex their stereotypes assume I'm having.
It really says more about them than about us.


To lighten the mood, an old Jewish joke:
A Jewish train traveler in 1930s Germany who is flabbergasted when he sees his friend Moshe reading a Nazi newspaper. "Moshe, have you lost your mind?!" he cries out. "Why are you reading that hateful rag?"

"I used to read the Jewish newspaper," replied Moshe, "but it was too depressing. When I read this paper, the Jews own all the banks, they control the media, we're rich and powerful, we run the world! This news is so much better."

belledame222 said...

hee!

someone else's comment elsewhere put me in mind of the "what kind of rabbi we have" yarn. too tired to remember now though.

Trinity said...

"Oh definitely not. It's the accusations of being sexbots that always gets me, considering I really am effectively asexual in practice..."

yeah, that gets me too. Ren is really the only one I can think of that I KNOW has lots of sex.

me personally: I do SM play which I guess counts and I cyber with a couple delightful fellows who live rather far away... but I haven't had sex in a year at least.

I'm such a sexbot. :-/ Because I talk about desire and eroticism and turn-ons and OH NO PORN WHICH I USE (which must mean all my friends do, of course) and why my sexuality is such an important part of me, because that's how I'm wired and it ties into a lot of my joy and mys elf-conception...

right

Amber said...

"yeah, that gets me too. Ren is really the only one I can think of that I KNOW has lots of sex."

Heh. I guess I need to talk more about my sex life, don't I?

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