Monday, July 14, 2008

Kyle Payne: Why it was a Big Fucking Deal, a note for the perplexed

Re this:

ETA: this, too

Hi, witchy, stormcloud, delphyne, Heart, whichever other of the "radical feminists" who just can't understand why this is a particularly big deal for those of us who aren't among the Elect, or what the difference is between this guy and, what is it now? all the other porn "users" in the world? all the other male feminists in the world (except the ones you approve of, of course)? all the other men in the world? (except for the ones you're in relationships with and/or still married to, of course), this one's for ya:

Because he's a predator who sounds plausible, he's STILL FUCKING BLOGGING AND GOING TO FEMINIST AND PROGRESSIVE CONFERENCE THAT OTHERS OF US MIGHT BE AT? Because there's an open hearing for his sentencing and getting the word out might just -might- get him a harder sentence if enough people read and go to it?

which, once again for the peanut gallery, is:

via Eleanor's Trousers:

Darren Johnson
July 8, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Any one who lives in Storm Lake or close to Storm Lake should go to this sick S.O.B sentancing on 11-Aug-2008 at the Buena Vista County Courthouse. Payne has asked for open sentancing. This means the Judge will listen to all that want to talk then decide what the sentance should be. He needs to do time.

CYA at the courthouse on 11-Aug-2008.
DRD


***

Okay? If nothing else, does that register? At all? I know this is really fucking difficult to understand, but...

p.s. and no, in fact, "our" "male allies" (yes, I know the two or three, maybe four or five, people you mean. No, I'm not naming names. Deal with it. and a couple of others I suspect you -may- mean are not allies or friends of mine, in one case not anyone's at all; the mere fact that Renegade tolerates their existence on her blog doesn't mean jack shit other than that's her comments policy) being rude/mean Internets assholes to you, fanboying mainstream porn actresses and/or yeah, sometimes saying wince-inducing garden variety sexist crap and/or shit I just plain don't agree with, still really not equivalent to SEXUALLY ASSAULTING A PASSED OUT WOMAN. And hey, guess what, any of 'em ever does? I'll be first in line with the pitchforks and torches. I'll just have to have my puppet strings pulled by someone else, I -guess-.

But the fact that you apparently can't tell the difference between a predator like Kyle and someone who just happens to read Playboy or whatever and is mean to you and/or your precious ideology? Or, more likely I suspect, are pretending you don't see it for your own grudgetastic reasons? What's that old joke again?

"What's the difference between chicken stew and chicken shit?"

"I don't know, what?"

"Remind me never to go over to lunch at your house."

Not that that was ever on the menu. But, -really.- How fucking petty can you -be-?

17 comments:

Renegade Evolution said...

yeah, not sure how this is so hard to MISS...but then again...the mass paranoia and frat like hazing, ritual and demand to follow the message of the collective and all...I can see how one might suffer from bouts of denseness and blindness.

Really, I mean, if one were to not fear sullying themselves and actually read or listen to the radio show or something, they might, maybe, get that hummm, its not all about them, and there is reason to call out Kyle Payne.

It almost sounds like some of these folks are so busy falling all over themselves to talk about Evil, Inc (that would be us) and the PORN that...well, they are almost giving this scumbag a pass.

Strange Days indeed.

belledame222 said...

I think they really just are that fucking petty that they'd rather do pretty much anything than admit you or I had a point, ever. Because of course that's what's really important here, the grudgematch.

Shit, radio nothing, they could just go directly to the source via Nine Deuce or ginmar or something; and you know, if they were the only ones or first ones talking about this, gosh, why do I think they might've had a very different tune?

weak.

GallingGalla said...

It almost sounds like some of these folks are so busy falling all over themselves to talk about Evil, Inc (that would be us) and the PORN that...well, they are almost giving this scumbag a pass.

Almost?

I think that they ARE giving him a pass.

Renegade Evolution said...

belledame- well the folk who did blog on any side about it, you know, about the actual ISSUE, payne, like Nine Deuce, buried alive, gin, lost clown...yep, props and nothing but, even considering my and gin's history and all...this issue is bigger...

but otherwise...shades of the Philly rape/theft of services case, all over again...which I sorta predicted, sadly enough. It's spooky that some folk can hate other folk so much that, hey, Kyle Payne gets a fucking pass. I mean really, the likelyhood of, oh Max Hardcore showing up at one of their events and all? SLIM. This guy on the other hand? Well gee, he's been to a few!

PhysioProf said...

For those who are interested I have a post up at Feministe (where I am guest blogging for two weeks) using Payne as a context for talking in general about men calling themselves feminists, and that it is fucking stupid for them to do it, even if they are not nefarious scumbags like Payne. A bunch of whiny-ass "male feminists" are all mad at me in the comments for calling them out on their game.

If anyone is so inclined, please weigh in with your opinion over there.

Brown Shoes said...

I honestly do think it is pettiness, and probably stems only from you not getting onboard, shaving your heads, and moving into the fenced-off compounds.

Ohma said...

Ugh...I really need to stop reading through your and Ren's blog. Finding out that the communities which supposedly support my friends, family, and I, are riddled with the same assholes as the communities dedicated to harming us (they just use slightly different lingo, "you suck! you're too masculine" vs. "you suck! you're too feminine" for example) is quite distressing. Not to mention that they have the same bad habits as those *other* communities (like those christian fundies who were railing against a school which suspended a fundie 'science' teacher who *BURNED CROSSES ON TO KID'S ARMS*).

*sigh*

Stupid human tribalism.

eleanorstrousers said...

And that is why I have always been wary of these Dworkin anti-porn types. They can't see the forest for the trees, or in this case, the victim for the pictures. This involved a real woman who did not get to be paid/ awake for her victimizing.

Ginger said...

Hi Belle,
Would you be interested in contributing to the next Carnival of Feminists? You have such a great blog and I know you'd add something valuable. Take a look at my carnival ideas here:

http://diaryofafreakmagnet.blogspot.com/2008/07/call-for-submissions.html

No worries if you can't participate, but I'd love it if you did. Feel free to submit any post you'd like. I notice that you've been following the Kyle Payne situation pretty closely, and putting up some really insightful posts on it, but submit whatever you want.

Sorry to put this in your comments. I wind up doing this a lot, because so many bloggers don't post their email addys.

Cheers,
Ginger
diaryofafreakmagnet.blogspot.com

andi said...

In regards to K. Payne, some folks are sick fucks - then there's folks like this guy.
Belle, thanks for posting about this stuff..you really do a lot of good.

Lisa Harney said...

If one of them had spotted the Kyle stuff, I'm sure they'd all be posting on it, but since you and Ren started blogging on it first, it must be irrelevant. "Of course men are dangerous rapists, we know this. Picking one out doesn't make a difference even if he has an open sentencing come up, and if people see what he's done before going, that might make a difference.

Even if he's using his identification as a feminist and his declared opposition to porn as his reasons for attending feminist conferences, and using his rape counseling status to gain access to women who have already been raped.

Hateful, hateful, hateful.

belledame222 said...

And the best part is, neither I nor Renegade actually spotted him first (dibs! dibs!!...ffs...), actually, it was Eleanor, who is neither (as far as I know) particularly "sex pos" or radical feminist. but then I suppose if you're not with 'em, you're agin' em, and she might've said something unflattering about Dworkin and/or her followers, so, you know, clearly Bad, too, never mind.

joankelly6000 said...

For the record, because I have posted on I think at least one thread that aggravated you - just for my own self, I would like to make it clear here in case you haven't seen me say it elsewhere - my expression of non-surprise and/or not relating to tons of everybody else being surprised by that man is not about rolling my eyes at anyone who is surprised, nor deriding any of your efforts to skewer him and what he's done.

And because you probably have not seen it where I wrote this also, I wanted to say it again here - I am thankful to you, all of you, for caring.

I don't mean that in a consdescending hey-I'm-surprised-you-care-but-wow-how-nice, I mean that honestly I am glad that any human beings care, because not all do.

I know that bunches of people have bad blood, and it's a bummer that it does not appear to ever go on hiatus, and because I am sometimes weirded out by stuff on all sides, it feels awkward to me to comment on anyone's blogs.

But, again, because I commented on a blog post that I believe you have identified as problematic to you, I just wanted to say, without inserting myself into what goes on between you guys and the other folks, that it is not my intent to make you feel shitty for caring.

I'm not saying it was anyone else's intent either (my point is not "hey I'm not like *those* mean people). I just took some of what you've had to say as being that you felt that way, that people were trying to make you feel shitty for caring, and it mattered to me to at least say, I would not intentionally do that to anybody, and it was not what I was talking about in any of what little I've had to say on this subject.

belledame222 said...

No problem, Joan; I actually wasn't aware of what/where you're referring to, but really, no worries. in any case, I'm not sure where the impulse to excommunicate/demonize people because they, like, commented on oh noez someone else's blog where I can't stand their ass, but it ain't from me. You're a free agent. Anyway, thanks.

And, thanks, andi, appreciated.

Lisa Harney said...

Hi, Joan.

I thought it was a bit odd that anyone thought that the Kyle stuff was posted out of surprise - I know for certain that nothing I read about him surprised me, but the thought of all that stuff that he was keeping in the background not being known while he tries to gain access to women who have been raped or speak out on feminism to feminist women? I think getting that information out there so other women know what he's doing - that's important.

While I agree that we should be wary of men who put themselves in those positions, it's because we don't know what they've done, what they're doing, how their practice matches the politics they speak. In his case, we do know what he's done, what he's doing, and how his practice does not match his politics. And women should know.

Queers United said...

this guy is not a feminist he is a predator

http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com

Joan Kelly said...

Eh, I've only really gotten the "not talking to you anymore because you commented at such-and-such," one time, and actually I had been obnoxious to that person at her own blog, so I shrugged it off as me just getting on her nerves more than social pressure to conform/choose sides/whatever the hell.

I meant that I am uncomfortable with both saying nothing and with saying anything, in situations of high tension between multiple blogging parties.

There are times when that is a bigger bummer than others, because of caring in intimate ways about what's being said (meaning, different from just "hey do I feel like engaging in discussions/arguments about this or that theory, outlook, etc.").

Lisa, thanks for your response also, that all makes sense and yeah, I am not sure where some of the perceptions being batted around came from either.