Continuing a topic drift from feministe

this thread.

I started this drift, but I'm feeling a bit gingerly about hosting this one, because I'm not a rape survivor (which doesn't mean i couldn't ever be, of course, so i still find these discussions useful in a number of ways).

But because the original thread was a carryover regarding a woman who was raped during a bondage situation, some stuff about "safewords" and so forth was brought up. While I think by the end most of the participants at the feministe thread were pretty much all on the same page that this was a red herring in the context of the woman whose letter started the whole thing (see the original thread(s) for why), I and I think some others of us were thinking that a separate discussion about let's say non-heteronormative situations wherein rape occurs, and what if anything might differentiate them from the situations in which rape is mostly talked about on feminist boards (man rapes woman, often in a dating or relationship context), could be worth exploring.

I mean, I think that BDSM protocol is worth discussion all by itself; but here, particularly because one participant starting talking about -his- experiences as a -bottom- (wrt bondage, and the original thread), i wanted to, i guess, explore various ways in which to talk about rape/abuse/intimate abuse of power that doesn't automatically assume PIV, or indeed man-over-woman. i don't necessarily mean acts so much as interpersonal dynamics and cultural expectations, including subcultural expectations.

Or to quote myself over there, one way this could go:

"...whereas in straight dating/romance/what have you there are still i think gender-based “rules,” even if they seem to be changing so rapidly no one really knows what they are for sure; but, you know, there’s a template.

but if you’re just coming out (and this goes for gay women, too, and anyone who doesn’t fit the “normative” het dating/sexual experience), for the most part, you’ve either found a subculture for your template (much more likely to be true in urban centers, even now), or you’re simply in mostly uncharted territory.

so i guess what i’m saying is, with women/women as well as men/men: the act can be the same; the feelings the victim go through are certainly the same; but it’s possible that the erm expectations going into it (a situation that ends in date rape, say) might be a bit different. i think for lesbians/women with feminist sensibilities there’s the added, well, WOMEN can’t be abusers, because…they, we just can’t.

and then too of course there’re various experiences of aftermath, of being able to tell your community. If you’re not out and you're raped in a dating/hookup/relationship context, that makes the likelihood of your getting support even less."

Part of the reason I bring this up, of course, is because I'm queer, and i do become acutely aware of the heteronormativity of many such conversations on feminist boards (wrt a variety of subjects, but especially anything let's say intimate). In this last discussion at feministe, i didn't find this (what i'm about to say), but often, in other discussions, i guess let's call them traditional gender politics seem to get all wrapped up with sexual abuse. I'm wondering if there are other ways in which to talk about this.

I'm going to open the floor here and just mostly moderate, I think, at this point.