See Dark Sun, feministe (zuzu), feministe (piny), Shakespeare's Sister, Republic of Dogs, and/or Tom Watson for details.
-on edit: Donna at The Silence of Our Friends probably has the most complete roundup.
Lemme just explain this:
1) It's not the use of the word "cunt" that people have a problem with, you disingenuous festering gobshites. It's your sexism. Gross, neanderthalish, reactionary sexism. Makes a nice matched set with the racism (google: Hamsher + blackface or Liza + TRex; i'm too tired now, kids), but doesn't really do much for your progressive creds. Which leads me to:
2) "Progressive" does not, in fact, mean "partisan Democrat who IS NOT A PUSSY, GODDAMIT, and will act as vile and lgf/freeperesque as necessary to prove that this is so." One can quibble about the -actual- meaning of the word today; just, you should know? it actually has to do with foreign concepts like, o, theory, policy, that sort of thing. I know, I know! Wacky notion! Politics is just like football! WIN!! WIN!! But some people seem to think these things are important. Maybe even more important--I know, radical notion--than your social climbing.
3) With allies like you, who needs enemas? Pointless fuckstains. Go sit your ass down.
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29 comments:
an elegant and effective retort.
Seriously. Rock on, BD. I'm going, from here on out, to designate the posters at FDL under my nickname for my father. "Sour Cream." Both for their bigotry and their sexism. Jeebus, when liberals become comparable to my father, there must be some type of tear in the cosmos somewhere.
Oh bd.
Progressive feminists use 'fuck you' and 'getting fucked' in their derogatory meanings all the time. The phrases have emotional valence, even though they coexist in the same brains and hearts with attitudes and political philosophies which are diametrically opposed to the attitudes which gave the phrases the emotional valence in the first place.
So why is FDL and/or the writer (Pachacutec?) guilty of such great heresy when trotting out the charmingly quaint language of bj's and facials to ridicule the presumably corrupt dealings of a politician? Do you really think the principals involved at FDL think there is anything demeaning about the actual sex act being referenced?
I'm not saying the phrasing — which I think could be reasonably assessed as being somewhat juvenile — is above reproach. Discussion and criticism wouldn't be unreasonable responses. But smearing the whole site??! Jesus!
I'm not surprised at the reaction from certain other bloggers on this, but I really thought you'd be on the other side of this one, bd. I have more respect for your take on it than theirs; maybe you can explain it to me. When you're not tired.
Sure. This is a pattern that's happened, oh, what, five, six times now? with fdl?
1) Say something that basically makes you sound like lgf lite.
2) Some people take personal offense; others just say, hey, that's not so suave, i don't think, maybe?
3) Instead of actually engaging the complainers, fdl fapper
a) ups the ante
b) levels spotlit personal attack on selected complainers, sending legions of flying monkeys after them to their site in the process
c) variously dogpiles, censors, or shuts down dissent on own blog
d) latherrinserepeat
e) until it finally sputters out from sheer exhaustion, no one having learned anything.
f) several weeks or months later, it's happening again!
Did you catch the blackface Lieberman thing? That went down a treat. Or Liza Sabater should "respect her betters?" Or the various gross anti-Asian bigotries TRex has engaged in? Or just the way they're even -responding- to this?
It's not some sort of hothouse p.c. fainting goat response to tuff talk, much as they'd love to paint it that way. It's that they're being irredeemable fuckwits, and it's getting really old, and remind us why we need a freerepublic lite, again? remind us how this is "progressive?"
It's like the online equivalent of Bush's codpiece. No one's -impressed- already. Save it for the actual issues--remember those? Issues? oh, yeah.
as for this:
>So why is FDL and/or the writer (Pachacutec?) guilty of such great heresy when trotting out the charmingly quaint language of bj's and facials to ridicule the presumably corrupt dealings of a politician? Do you really think the principals involved at FDL think there is anything demeaning about the actual sex act being referenced?>
all i know is what's on the page; don't know or care what's in their squishy little heart of hearts. and -as- written, it was tiresome misogynistic tripe; it was being used in a fashion that sure -sounded- like they thought it was demeaning (ugly imagery, being used against a loathed--female--enemy) and oh yeah, she's too ugly to be a -real- prostitute, anyway, haw, haw, haw...
as someone else put it, if you really can't find anything better to use against your -ideological- enemy than this kind of tired tripe, you don't deserve to call yourself a commentator.
and so, what's -really- fuelling the fight, once again, is, they're being extra-assy about it: all kinds of handwaving about o gay men use "cunt" all the time (yes, i remember, gay men can't be racist either, so stands to reason they can't be sexist; oh wait, though), and don't be so "delicate" (o the multiple ironies: i may be gay, but I'M NOT A PUSSY!!! I'M NOT I'M NOT I'M NOT!!!!!), as though it were the word "cunt" that was really what's gotten most peoples' manties in a wad. please, Mary.
seriously, grow up! it was the same bloody goddam thing with the blackface business. you are ALIENATING YOUR BASE. -when- that happens, you reassess what you're doing, would-be politico; you don't keep going YES I AM RIGHT I AM I AM and do it -harder;- not if you want to keep any credibility you don't.
because, once again, yes, there's an audience for this kind of assholery; trouble is, the -bulk- of it is over on the -right,- and they have their -own- assholes.
nobody wants Asshole Lite.
and no one is impressed with "fuck you! fuck you! --but o please support us when we need it; we can't do it without you." really. it's enough.
squishy little hearts
*chuckle snort*
OK, I have neither the intimate familiarity with all the particulars of this incident nor with FDL's history to rebut your take on them. Thanks for spelling out where you antipathy is coming from.
Excellent, and I notice that you did not need to utter one single ethnic or racist or sexist slur in the process!
Which just goes to show that it is possible to insult someone without relying on a bunch of cliches day after day, week after week, month after month.
You'd think they would all be tired of themselves lately.
That latter word originated in a reference to gay men who were bottoms
Well assholes tend to produce all sorts of nasty shit... it's hard to argue with its use, you can make claims that its about this or that thing once upon a time, but stripped of all that extraneous stuff it still works.
Cunt on the other hand... does he allow babies to pass through him? Is he a really cool erogenous area? What is exactly bad about being a cunt that it works as an insult? Oh right, it's attached to a woman.
Oh and I was the firstliest kewl blogger to get on Trex's case back after yearlykos when he basically jsut chucked a shit load of slut shaming stuff that basically only worked as any sort of insult (admittedly towards wonkette, but that isn't the point) as long as you followed the logic that getting drunk and then being date raped was shameful for the victim.
found here.
Anyone read, is it Piers Antony's?, Tarot series? remember the misogynistic gay satanist? Trex (and most other repug homosexuals) in a nut shell.
Don't underestimate the importance of these sorts of safe spaces where people can scream about their topic of choice.
but if that's the case then these are basically the zombies of the shouty bigots, who've risen from the blog after stormfront got full up.
WordVeri:ypnkzam
Well said, belle! Unfortunately, sexism is rampant in our society from both the obvious to the less so obvious. The best we can do is call people out on their stuff and work towards change.
A good comparison of "cunt" is to "asshole." That latter word originated in a reference to gay men who were bottoms. - Alon Levy
Is that true, though? I would have thought a more likely origin for the insult would be it's implied comparison with the most despised part of the anatomy, the one associated with shit (not to put too fine a point on it). Are we really to believe that terms like "Arschloch", "trou du cul" etc were once implied aspersions on masculinity? Were they every used as a habitual insult against homosexuals, for instance? I don't think I've ever come across that.
This is why I'm not a political blogger, nor do I read many political blogs. My blood pressure just can't handle the constant flow of bullshit.
Ya know, I really don't understand how, after the first flare-up, this gets to be "OMG, I'M SO OFFENDED" anymore.
I mean... all it took with Kos was one Pie Fight, and we all understood, "Hey, Kos is a sexist asshat, and the 90% of the folks that post there are sexist asshats, and the other %10 of those people are sexist asshat enablers (*cough*Georgia10*cough*)." So... ya don't hear about KosAsshats anymore. It's expected that they are morons...
And, it's beyond time for FDL to just be written off and properly ignored in the same way. I mean really, does anyone expect anything better out of them, anymore?
Or, "how is this news?"
well, yeah, but that is the age-old dilemma in all such thrashes when it is dealing with someone who's reached a sufficient level of popularity and influence.
"it's so overcrowded, nobody goes there anymore."
...you know.
and yeah, it'd be great if "just ignore them, everybody!" were sufficient, but sometimes it...ain't.
in this case, whosiewatchie's getting interviews on Keith Olbermann; they have something like 2,700 links to their site; they're not the same as some random fuckwit ranting to hirself in some tiny corner of the street or blogosphere, wherein you'd literally have to seek hir out to even know sie exists.
"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."
we also have Hamsher to thank for bringing us Tarantino. i dunno about y'all, but i am SO OVER that whole genre i could crap. it makes sense though. both the kingmaking, then as now, and her liking of that aesthetic: so hip! so edgy! so "hardcore!" so now!
so what.
as my best friend might say,
"there's a wee want in them."
as per the elections: well i suppose i can wait to at least see what if anything the newly elect actually do (or don't). oh, you mean wrt fdl's partisan assholery? well, no; as veronica says, in that case: no, i truly expected no different, from that lot. all football rally all the time. zzzzzzz
okay, that TRex piece on Wonkette is thoroughly lame, the more so because by now it's so blatantly all about, with him, "butbutbut -I- wanna go write for Time magazine!! WHAT DOES THAT BITCH HAVE THAT I DON'T?? WELL???"
>In summary: Comedy based exclusively around the idea of you being a huge asshole stopped being funny back before South Park jumped the shark, if you can’t compete in Feministe’s Coulter Competition, just fucking well say so already, don’t be an ass about it.>
exactly.
no, i do not know that Piers Anthony story. the only Piers Anthony thing i ever read (i think?) was some pro-vegetarian piece wherein the humans are treated like cows, complete with "mating" and and overstretched...yeah.
speaking of, hm, attitudes...
mostly TRex reminds me of the walking stereotype of a Chelsea fuckwit who was training me to work on the LGBT counselling hotline, only (probably, who knows, presumably i was seeing this dude at his "best") nastier.
1) we were supposed to write down the stats of the caller if possible, for database purposes. age, gender, location, race. "unknown" was also fine; not every call made it logistically possible to ask without being jarring.
so but i noticed that this dude kept checking "white" after a number of calls i took (the training had him listening on the other end without speaking) where i had not in fact gotten the information.
Finally I asked him, so what's up with that? He goes,
"I dunno. They sounded white."
And that was that.
2) after one night of training, we needed to talk further and decided to do it over dinner, just to be sociable like. or rather, i suggest it, as we pass a typical Chelsea restaurant entirely filled with boyclonez. He's all,
"Sure. You can be my hag for the night."
today, i'd have simply stabbed him with the bread knife and left, but that was a long time ago and i was rather different then...
FDL is significantly less popular than Kos.
And hopefully declining. But, it's popular enough.
I wonder how much damage Hamsher's antics caused the Lamont campaign. probably not sufficient to really make a dent; but, put it this way, i don't think they helped, either. i mean he had to go out of his way to dissociate himself from her after the blackface thing.
maybe her fifteen minutes are coming to an end. hope so. she's pretty horrible. TRex and so forth will find someone else to glom onto, no doubt, but it'd still give me some schadenfreudische pleasure.
then again, i'm out of the loop. what is the name supposed to be about, anyway? 'firedoglake?' as long as we're on the subject.
but if that's the case then these are basically the zombies of the shouty bigots, who've risen from the blog after stormfront got full up.
Basically. I'd much rather have them rant to one another on Stormfront than roam around Morningside Heights shooting people named Cohen, Friedman, or Goldman.
This is why I'm not a political blogger, nor do I read many political blogs. My blood pressure just can't handle the constant flow of bullshit.
The liberal blogosphere is mostly free of that crap. It's not really drama-free, but I find blogs like Pandagon and Majikthise a lot easier to bear than Firedoglake and Daily Kos, which make me root for the wingnuts.
Fire: she likes to sit (play with?) by a fire
Dog: with her pack of black poodles, one of which is named Kobe (I kid you not)
Lake: watching Lakers games.
As far as the whole "I'm gay (an oppressed minority) so I can't be sexist (or racist), speakin of Chelsea fuckwits (that is so good I'm gonna have to steal that, I just know there will be a perfect ocassion to use it one fine day), back about 20 years ago in one of my previous lives, I was a hairdresser. And like about (at least!) 50 percent of the guys I worked with (about 90 percent of whom were gay) were horrifically misogynistic. It is amazing the things they will say to you about you as a woman or other woman if are their fag hag for the day or evening or whatever.
naw, that dog sure don't hunt, not by any stretch of the imagination. And btw--I have a cousin who is a log cabin rethug, and he HATES women, which figures....
>The liberal blogosphere is mostly free of that crap. It's not really drama-free, but I find blogs like Pandagon and Majikthise a lot easier to bear than Firedoglake and Daily Kos, which make me root for the wingnuts.>
egh, hoomp, hem. anyway. well yes, no doubt they're better. but ah. well. herm. anyway.
sunrunner: o lordie, Log Cabin Republicans. do not get. will never get. not as long as -this- is the Republican party, anyway. how masochistic can you be?
..."Kobe."
and here all this time I thought it was *my* deomgraphic that had the monopoly on racism/sexism/otherdemographicism.
Now I have to rearrange my values all over again.
I would guess that the majority, if not all, of TRex's posts are about him. Seriously. And I'd say there is alot of projection going on too, like the one about Wonkette, it's filled with rage and jealousy about her success and popularity; but what is the first line of attack he pulls on anyone who questions him? They must be filled with rage and jealousy about his success and popularity.
I don't know Chelsea (NY borough?), but I do get the impression he is playing some sort of character, and it appears to be a gay stereotype. A Nathan Lane character maybe?
Thanks to you, BD, for your amazing comments and links so I could get caught up with this latest idiocy.
Your comments have been awesome, as have Donna's and many others. Keep up the great work, Chicas!
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