Thursday, May 31, 2007

Have I mentioned lately...

that I loathe Sheila Jeffreys?

no, really

"We do think...that all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women."



quack quack quack


The pursuit of the orgasm of oppression serves as a new "opium of the masses." It diverts our energies from the struggles that are needed now against sexual violence and the global sex industry. Questioning how those orgasms feel, what they mean politically, whether they are achieved through the prostitution of women in pornography, is not easy, but it is also not impossible. A sexuality of equality suited to our pursuit of freedom has still to be forged and fought for if we are to release women from sexual subjection.


you charmer,

The reasons why adult women seek [gender] reassignment surgery stem from the inequality of women, from male violence and from lesbian oppression. Women who have been abused in childhood seek reassignment so that they can escape the bodies in which they were abused and gain the status of the perpetrator in order to feel safe. Some want to gain privileges they perceive to be open to men. And many feel unable to love women in the bodies of women because of societal repression and hatred of lesbians.


you

I call the practices in which women, and some men, request others to cut up their bodies - as in cosmetic surgery, transsexual surgery, amputee identity disorder (pursuit of limb amputation) and other forms of sadomasochism - self-mutilation by proxy.



yes, we are very, very special


It is hard to imagine lesbians, or
any women, finding utopia in a public toilet...The gulf separating women from this variety of queer politics is extremely wide.’


o yes indeed

(another author talking about Jeffreys):

I was not present, by a margin of about twenty minutes, when a group of women, disguised with ski masks, smashed up Chain Reaction, the lesbian SM London night club with crowbars and injured the women who got in their way - in the name of opposing violence against women; I was present a few weeks later at the Hackney Empire for an International Women's Day cabaret when a group of lesbian feminists were jeered by the queue, among whom were almost no SM women, with a cry of 'Where's your crowbars?' I saw women from Sheila Jeffreys' circle at the picket outside Chain Reaction a few weeks earlier and, if she did not know the women who attacked the club with physical violence, one may assume that she knows a woman who does.

...Jeffreys gets very upset in this book at being called an essentialist, claiming that she regards sexual behaviour as socially constructed. Were this the case, her line on transsexuals would seem a little odd, unless she really does believe that we are Trojan horses of the patriarchy, CIA agents prepared to go that little bit further into deep cover; when she really gets down to it, she does not like the idea of sharing toilet facilities with me, let alone friends. If a belief that I necessarily pass water or give good advice in a sinister and unsisterly manner is not essentialism, I do not know what is.



...unless I'm missing the funny part, and the self-parody is deliberate

In your chapter you say admiring things about Andrea Dworkin and me and that we are bad-asses.(I like donkeys too but I do not think this is what is meant).I do not consider myself a bad-ass at all in fact. I don't see it as a womancentred term.


and, Pauline Bart, could you BE any more of a drama queen?

Women who "came out" in large part for political reasons during the seventies as part of feminism, to make themselves whole, their lives consistent, their political personal, are taken aback when they are considered the enemy, the mothers to rebel against, the anti-sex, vanilla, lesbian feminists who are yoked to the Right Wing. To be a lesbian for political reasons now is like being a Stalinist after the Purge Trials in the Soviet Union (when it was clear that the Soviet Union was not the workers' paradise).

Meeting a lesbian who was not a feminist in the seventies was as rare as meeting a Jew who was not a Democrat in the thirties. Alix Dobkin sang "Any woman can/Be a lesbian." Our movement was revolutionary: aiming at overthrowing the patriarchy and creating an "alternative universe in which we would construct a new sexuality, a new ethics, a new culture in opposition to mainstream culture (ix)." Our method was consciousness raising. Our practice was loving women. Gay-Lesbian-Bisexual-Transgender Studies, marches and journals were unimaginable.

Lesbian feminists produced "women's culture": women's theaters, poetry, music, art, and newspapers, which were crucial in western countries to the creation of a lesbian community. Yet lesbian feminists and their work are currently marginalized by a new generation of women. No good deed goes unpunished!

...Jeffreys's most frightening chapter is the second, "The Lesbian Sexual Revolution," in which paradigmatically brutal or, at best, insensitive practices are extolled and dominance is made sexy and consensual. These s/m lesbians use dildoes, restraints and torture (e.g. dripping hot wax on one's partner)...


"We walked uphill in the snow both ways in manky Birkenstocks, and what thanks do we get? No, don't mind me, I'll just sit here in the dark...alone...get that candle away from me!"

Pillocks.

x-posted at sm feminists

70 comments:

Sassywho said...

wow, shame as a way to enforce a position... somehow that seems all too familiar.

Renegade Evolution said...

she is most loathe worthy...I concur.

Winter said...

Gay-Lesbian-Bisexual-Transgender Studies, marches and journals were unimaginable.

Really? God, the world has gone to rack and ruin hasn't it what with all the LGBT marches and journals.

Ah, I know I shouldn't have a go at a woman I know nothing about, but I am seriously not in the mood for this at the moment.

Lo said...

Wow. I just don't even have the words. I truly don't. I only read the first article, but *Head.Desk.* I mean, first of all...where does alienating people who don't subscribe to your strict definition of 'feminism' get your movement? Ummm, nowhere? That's right. Secondly I'm a cosmetologist. So you can infer your own conclusions as to how I feel about 'the beauty industry is universally evil' debate. Not saying everyone should feel that way. Just that I personally think that my job can be a positive thing for women. And feminism while I'm at it.

baby221 said...

Bah. I'm glad those women have found a feminist cause that works for them, but do they have to try and ruin my feminism with it? *grumble*

Veronica said...

"THE ORGASM OF OPPRESSION" is my new favorite phrase.

I mean... it's like the new Supervillian. "Oh no! Radical Suzy has been attacked by THE ORGASM OF OPPRESSION!"

belledame222 said...

I'm sticking with "I do not consider [bad-ass] a woman-centred term," myself. I think I'm going to make it into a needlepoint sampler or something.

btw, I could be wrong, but I could swear I remember Pauline Bart as being straight. I remember BL/QD talking about her at one point, some essay where she goes into similarly amusing/headdesky histrionics about something else, the menacing black men and queer students in her classroom, and how she was Wronged by the administration, or something.

Mnemosyne said...

Um, isn't arguing that hetero women can easily become lesbians pretty much the same argument that nutjob fundamentalists make when they argue that there's no such thing as gay or lesbian people, only homosexual behavior?

I guess you get too far out on one extreme and you end up circling right back up to the opposite side.

belledame222 said...

Pretty much!

Deoridhe said...

Gods, I sometimes wish I could chose to be bi. They know how many offers I've gotten from women over the years, including one of the best Doms I know. T___T

Rebecca said...

Ugh. Of all the anti-trans and anti-sex crowd, I don't think there exists a more hateful spokeswoman than Sheila Jeffreys.

I'm originally from Melbourne, where Jeffreys currently (or at least at that time) teaches. Her behaviour was downright notorious - among many incidents, there were stories of her physically attacking transpeople. The fact that she was associated with the gender studies department at that university ended up being a factor in my choosing to go elsewhere - I simply couldn't be sure I'd be fairly marked.

And that isn't even to start on her writings on sex and lesbian issues. Ugh.

queen emily said...

I'm pretty sure Jeffreys teaches in Political Science at Melbourne University rather than gender studies now (thank God.

And yeah, she's grrrrreat.

belledame222 said...

Her behaviour was downright notorious - among many incidents, there were stories of her physically attacking transpeople.

Get out! Really?!

Cassandra Says said...

"The orgasm of oppression"? Huh?
There are many things in life which I have felt oppressed by, but my own orgasm has never been one of them.

Also..."any woman can be a lesbian"...as long as some of them are OK with being celibate forever!
Easy to say if you ARE a lesbian and therefore aren't being asked to make any sacrifices. For those whose natural orientation is hetero, not so much.

Pillocks indeed. Personally I prefer the term fuckwit, but that's probably terribly patriarchal of me.

belledame222 said...

Well, I like mixing it up occasionally.

"Gobshite" is another fine word

belledame222 said...

oh and don't worry, CS, there's still plenty you can sacrifice if you're a lesbian! Dildos, butch-femme roles, any sort of classic femmey gussying up (with or without a butch on one's arm), piercings, tattoos, pr0n (yes, the lesbian-made kind is Bad too), cheap anonymous sex in public toilets (not that any -real- woman would ever do such a thing anyway), of course anything smacking of BDSM...i expect fisting is right out, and anal is probably deeply suspect at best; hell, penetration may be off the menu, at any rate you -know- it's Patriarchal.

i'm not sure whether carpet munching is on the Approved list. maybe I should write to her and ask!

"Dear Sheila..."

Cassandra Says said...

You should ask that question, actually. Because, if she says that the muff-diving is OK...
If giving head to a man is deeply submissive and thus unacceptable and muff diving is OK, then how would one justify that ethically speaking?

Cassandra Says said...

Also...tattoos? Why are they on the un-approved list? That's a new one to me. Is she under the impression that the needle is some sort of mini-phallus that spits ink instead of semen?

queen emily said...

Is there anyone besides Sheila who she's ok with? Like, anyone at all.

The following are RIGHT out:

all men (evil by definition), transpeople (MTFs are dangerous interlopers, FTMs treacherous deserters), straight women (enemy collaborators), butches (value masculinity too much), femmes (value het femininity too much, people with tattoos and piercings (mutilation by proxy don't cha know)..

I think that leaves a couple not-too-butch, not-too-femme lesbians. But then there's all the things you can't do in bed too.. Feminist revolution, table for one please.

Paradoxically, I think Jeffreys' work appeals to people with deeply ingrained homophobia, because she reserves her deepest disgust for just about every other GLBT person but her.. traitors! treacheryz!

belledame222 said...

actually I'm not positive about the tattoos. i just figure they probably get lumped along with all the other bodymod "mutilations," you know, but perhaps not; maybe a tasteful labrys on the bicep is o.k., i dunno.

Cassandra Says said...

You know what my biggest problem with Jeffries is? She continually conflates things that bear a superficial resemblance to each other but are not in fact the same. The body mod/self harm link you posted is a perfect example (and you were right, she does hate tattoos!).

"The cutting up that girls do secretly in their bedrooms, the nipple piercing that is performed in high street studios, breast implant surgery, sex reassignment surgery, are connected."

OK...how are nipple piercing and sex reassignment surgery connected? One is usually done as a way to increase one's perception of oneself as sexy. It's an enhancement of a body that one is basically happy with. Sex reassignment surgery is done because one is NOT happy with the body one has and does not feel at home in it. The former can be done in minutes and has little recovery time, the other is not one but a series of major surgical procedures. How are these things the same? And she does this ALL THE TIME.

belledame222 said...

because it is the nature of twoo feminism to be content with the body that (probably non-existent, but in theory) Goddess gave you; the only other possibility is that you are subjecting yourself to the whims of the Patriarchy, which are--always--about cutting women up.

Rootietoot said...

um...what? Did I mis-interpret...I'm only supposed to have an orgasm for political purposes?

That poor, sad woman.

sly civilian said...

you know, i just hate all these people who try to ruin a perfectly respectable sexuality by bringing all sorts of nasty *sex* into it.

Chuckie K said...

Now actually, I have to thank you for the array of links and affording me my first extensive, although mercifully limited, encounter with SJ.

Among all these pieces, what I found oddest was not her own positions, but that moment in the Guardian, when the writer slips right into SJ's Birkenstock's without seeming to notice:

"Jeffreys tends to see things coming before they happen. She was the one who warned, in the early 1980s, that pornography and sadomasochistic sexual practices would invade the lesbian community. They did."

As though 'invade' were not an immensely loaded metaphor that in fact condenses into a single image the stance of paranoid militance that apparently operates as the generative principle of SJ's writing and politics.

So thanks again, many thanks. No, really.

Anonymous said...

Is she really saying that no feminist should have sexual intercourse ever? And lifelong celibacy is preferable to that? Why does she want anti-feminists to be the ones having all the children? (OK, yeah, I know we could do artificial insemination, but artificial insemination for women who are both fertile and naturally straight seems downright weird.)

Gods, I sometimes wish I could chose to be bi. They know how many offers I've gotten from women

For some reason, being bi didn't double my chances of getting a date on Saturday night - I've always gotten way more offers from men than from women (and was only attracted to a fraction of the men making offers).

Lynn Gazis-Sax

AWE said...

oh my GAWWWWD

SnowdropExplodes said...

I would say that I'm proud to be classed as an enemy by such a person - only, it seems like that's not much of a distinction!

Trinity said...

"Also...tattoos? Why are they on the un-approved list? That's a new one to me. Is she under the impression that the needle is some sort of mini-phallus that spits ink instead of semen?"

I believe it's analogous to SM for her, and her opinion of that: pain, bodily damage, "mutilation"

also, her "historian" prattle probably means she's aware of the links between the bodmod community as it exists today and gay male leather culture (think Gauntlet, PFIQ, etc. SADOMASOCHISM, ONOZ.)

midwesterntransport said...

""We do think...that all feminists can and should be lesbians."

AAAAAAAHHHHHH.

i just think that the NOTION of asking someone to give up sexual or sensual pleasure for the rest of their life for the sake of a political movement is absurd and puritan. it's ridiculous.

R. Mildred said...

Correct me if I'm wrong here - but doesn't lesbianism meaning something quite different from "a vow of celibacy"?

It's funny, because they've obviously overlooked the whole "All your radfem idols are/were in long term heterosexual relationships when they came up with the phrases you keep misquoting."

I believe it's analogous to SM for her, and her opinion of that: pain, bodily damage, "mutilation"

So why is her weirdness not the result of her past experience of abuse, and those of eveyrone else who disagrees with her are mere reactions to their abuse, again?

For some reason, being bi didn't double my chances of getting a date on Saturday night

We're ignoring that a bi person just classes "being hit on by women" as normal, whereas straight women class it as abnormal, and shocking and ZOMG! and you get reporting bias fucking around with the anecdotes, more likely bi women aren't actually hit on less than straight women who go to similar enviroments, in fact the reverse is probably true.

Then again, there are het women who'd take any sort of not at all serious flirtation as "being hit on" even though the flirting is probably happening precisely because the lesbian knows they won't respond.

Trinity said...

"i just think that the NOTION of asking someone to give up sexual or sensual pleasure for the rest of their life for the sake of a political movement is absurd and puritan. it's ridiculous."

It's internally consistent *if* you buy that what society considers sexy serves both the interest and the pleasure of men to the complete exclusion of women.

Which is why a lot of people bought it for a while.

cicely said...

And that isn't even to start on her writings on sex and lesbian issues. Ugh.

Ugh, indeed Rebecca! I'll start.


I stumbled upon her by accident many years ago - around 1990 -91 I think - when I found a book she'd contributed and written the introduction to. The book was called 'Not a Passing Phase.' The group involved in writing it was the Lesbian History Group (based in England) and the sub-title on the cover was 'Reclaiming Lesbians in History 1840 - 1985.' Pikkies of Gertrude Stein, Alice B Toklas and Vita Sackville-West on the cover. Well, I thought I was buying an entirely different sort of book.

Here's a quote from the introduction:

In all these cases (she'd listed historical theories about lesbianism) sexuality is seen as a personal issue, thrust upon one by birth or upbringing, or freely chosen by individual preference. This idea is refuted by lesbian-feminist theory. Lesbian feminists do not recognise heterosexuality as either 'normal' or 'natural' but as socially constructed in order to organise social relationships under male supremacy...However, this socialisation does not always work. There are lesbians who against all odds have never been interested in men, and others for whom heterosexuality is only a passing phase...

Adrienne Rich has suggested that all women are included within a lesbian continuum, ranging from those who may be in relationships with men but have emotional ties to other women to those with a full emotional, sexual and political commitment to women. This implies that not only can all women be lesbians, all women *are* in some sense lesbians. Other feminists are critical of this definition because it does not distinguish between women who are still helping to maintain patriarchy by serving men in heterosexual relationships and those who challenge patriarchy by choosing to put their energies into women.'


What really depressed me was being on the Michfest Board less than two years ago, being attacked for attacking Jeffreys ideas (Heart was a leader in this - surprise, surprise) and having to observe a number of other lesbians waxing lyrical about her - not being able to wait to get her next book - offering to email each other chapters etc. To think Jeffreys supporters are still out there -and multiplying? You know them. They're the ones who really care about all women.

Lynn said...

Holy shit. Freedom of spech is a mixed blessing. :)

And Mnemosyne's remark got me thinking- it does sound oddly like that argument doesn't it?

What next, a boot camp for fuckers?

The world's mad.

belledame222 said...

btw, welcome lynn, awe, other newcomers.

also, her "historian" prattle probably means she's aware of the links between the bodmod community as it exists today and gay male leather culture

oh yes well--as you can see from some of the other quotes, she heartily disapproves of the influence gay male culture has had on lesbians in the 80's and 90's. you know. they're MEN. which matters a lot more than the "gay" part, or it damn well should have. that's exactly why the sex-positive movement is so screwed up, you see; unlike a lot of the bleaters, she -knows- that it isn't just straight men, that there was crossover between the gay male leather (and other) cultures and lesbians early on; she just thinks it's wrong wrong WRONG. Real women don't enjoy power play! Real women would certainly never hook up for anonymous sex in filthy dirty toilets!...

CK:

Among all these pieces, what I found oddest was not her own positions, but that moment in the Guardian, when the writer slips right into SJ's Birkenstock's without seeming to notice:


Bindel's quite sympathetic to that school of feminism, I believe.

rootie:

.I'm only supposed to have an orgasm for political purposes?

It sort of reminds me of the scene in "Network" where Faye Dunaway is expressing her climax through shouting ratings numbers.

belledame222 said...

The following are RIGHT out:

...straight women (enemy collaborators),


O I dunno about that; I know of at least one such blogger (straight radfem, my favorite next to male radfem) who was positively wetting herself when she discovered that the great Sheila Jeffreys was reading her blog--and approved!

doesn't mean that Jeffreys was as excited about it, I suppose, magnanimous gesture notwithstanding.

Alon Levy said...

Which blogger is that - Biting Beaver?

Deoridhe said...

Then again, there are het women who'd take any sort of not at all serious flirtation as "being hit on" even though the flirting is probably happening precisely because the lesbian knows they won't respond.

...no, I was just counting the women who indicated they would love to have sex with me, offered, or expressed dismay that I was straight. Flirting is an entirely different thing. Most of the women who proposition me are bi, though, not lesbian. One was about to becoem a Mormon. I still boggle a little at that.

If it's not clear, I consider these interactions to be flattering, especially when it's a woman I particularly admire.

plain(s)feminist said...

Hee hee - That's funny that you linked to it because I was literally just thinking the other day of her "bad ass" comment and giggling because she so totally didn't get it (I was part of that listserv discussion when it happened) and also wondering what about "bad ass" must be seen as non-woman centered. I mean, women have asses too, no? Only men can be seen as tough and powerful and the kind of people who take no shit?

She's kind of known for being "interesting." I have a colleague who told me that she interrupted his presentation on something to do with trans issues and pedagogy to rant about how those issues shouldn't be presented at a Women's Studies conference - a conference which, by the way, had accepted his presentation knowing full well what it was and deemed it interesting and important enough to be given space which she then interrupted. I think, but am not sure, that she also protested his presence as a man giving a paper there, but don't quote me on that.

In the conversation you link to, the editor of a new book had written to the listserv to ask for advice about marketing it, and SJ responded by sending the *whole list* her own unpublished critique of the book, like she was doing the editor some sort of weird favor, which many of us felt was bad form.

I wonder if she'll be at the conference this year...

verte said...

That's funny that you linked to it because I was literally just thinking the other day of her "bad ass" comment and giggling because she so totally didn't get it

I'm reading the book she's critiquing there at the moment. Merri Johnson must have been wetting herself... Well, apart from the seething rage I know I'd have felt, anyhow.

Cassandra Says said...

That whole women would never hook up for sex in the public toilets thing...let's think thise through using Sheila-logic for a moment.
Gender is socially construced, right? So the things that we think of as "feminine" in terms of preferences can't truly be said to be feminine because they're not based on anything real, they're brainwashing.
So...if that's the case, how can we possible know what "women" as a group would like and dislike? Where does her confidence in making that statement come from? How does she know that women's common preference for emotional intimacy with their sex isn't socially constructed, too? And if it is socially constructed, shouldn't we think of that as a bad thing? And what if most women's "ew, toliets are icky" response is socially constructed too?

You don't even have to actually try to prove her wrong, it's so easy to poke holes in the logic of her own theory using her own theoretical framework because she's so damn inconsistent.

belledame222 said...

no, silly, we've all been constructed exactly the same way, didn't you know? Class Woman is like Cylons.

belledame222 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
belledame222 said...

PF: oh, you were part of that convo? yeah, isn't that...*something*? If she's really that thoroughly irony-impaired...couple that with the various stories of her being -interesting- (I'm still boggling that she's supposed to have -physically- attacked transfolk?!), I'm thinking: yup. Nuts.

and yeah, even without really knowing the full backstory wrt that book review, it seemed off, not to mention rude. I thought that the author had specifically asked for her opinion on the listserv, though. So...no, and...Damn. Yeah. -Interesting-.

belledame222 said...

AL: no, a friend of hers. She's been MIA for a while anyway, has BB, I think.

Alon Levy said...

Ah, then I don't know. The only other radfem blogger I know who could appeal to Jeffreys is Heart, but I barely know anything about her blogging. Twisty's not straight, Ann Bartow is too much of a MacKinnonite, Violet is too Dworkinian and nuanced, and Sam sometimes pretends to be nuanced.

belledame222 said...

Twisty? Twisty idolizes Jeffreys.

that's not who said it though. one of the smaller bloggers. it doesn't matter, really: point is, she is thought rather highly of by a number of such, in fact.

belledame222 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
plain(s)feminist said...

I'm reading the book she's critiquing there at the moment. Merri Johnson must have been wetting herself... Well, apart from the seething rage I know I'd have felt, anyhow.

She handled herself really well in that discussion, actually. She's got a lot of class.

and yeah, even without really knowing the full backstory wrt that book review, it seemed off, not to mention rude. I thought that the author had specifically asked for her opinion on the listserv, though.

What I remember - I haven't linked back to read the thread - was that Lisa asked for advice re. marketing, and that one of the first responses was Jeffreys', at which point Johnson was gracious enough to ask for feedback (along with pointing out how damaging Jeffreys' approach had been).

Amber said...

Meanwhile, Witchy-Woo is happily professing her adoration for Sheila Jeffreys.

What a coincidence! I hadn't visited WW's blog in weeks, but then I clicked over there out of morbid curiosity after she commented at Faith's and lo! What do I find!

As Ren would say... grimly amused.

belledame222 said...

well, I wasn't going to mention, but AL, there's your answer. although I was remembering from an older thread. I think.

fastlad said...

Why didn't I wait for "THE ORGASM OF OPPRESSION" before I titled my blog?

Gay-Lesbian-Bisexual-Theatre Studies? Luxury!

belledame222 said...

maybe that's the eighth Harry Potter book, you know...

little light said...

Heaven knows, it's not a movement if we start winning. Then we don't get the Grand Drama of the Few Glorious Martyred Strugglers. Multiple folk could get to be right and okay.
Lord love a duck, I don't know that the world could handle it.

It's like fucking indierock scenesters. I was fighting patriarchy before it was cool. Feminism sucks now that there's people into it.

belledame222 said...

muhahaha. actually, i hadn't thought of it before, that's a -great- analogy. that would explain a lot.

well and the whole "if you don't actually have more enemies than friends you're doing something wrong" attitude. because you know, TRUE radicalism is judged by how many people can't stand your ass, and say so.

heh. once i remember pony or someone saying something along those lines (look! all this attention! negative attention, even better! we must be doing SOMETHING right), i responded with one of my favorite quotes:

But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. (Carl Sagan)

it didn't go over too well.

drakyn said...

Does anyone ever actually address us trans*guys who are fem and/or prefer men?
I mean, it seems as though everyone thinks we all came from the "lesbian community" and were really butch. O.o
On the eljay ftm community, it seems as though there is at least a sizable minority of guys who never identified as lesbians.
I know the amount of time I thought I might be a lesbian was definitely less then a week. Mostly it was "hey, she's cute. Oh wow, damn, I want him."
And my friends joke that I could be doused in gasoline and lit on fire and I wouldn't be any more flaming than I am normally.

As for her claims as to why I might be trans*:
I've never been abused, sexually or otherwise. I'm sure there are also plenty of other guys who haven't been.
I really don't expect much male privilege. I am fem and queer and can't hide it. I will also look like I am at least a decade younger than my real age for many years to come. I fully expect to get carded for R rated movies for the next decade. From what I've seen, 15 year olds tend to get very little respect from the general public.
I generally prefer guys or people who don't fit into the gender binary, so I don't think I'm transitioning to love women in an accepted way. I suppose she could argue that all those books, manga, fanfics, etc. with queer male characters corrupted me, but I'm pretty sure I read those because I sought them out and not the other way around.

Carpenter said...

Aha!
At last the with the pinky sex I read about at quer dewd's!
One of the old popes forbade dildos as well. SJ is in fancy-schmamcy company....also with enocouraged vow of celibacy for the nun-like marriage to an abstract idea(but this time feminism instead of the big JC).

Mat said...

1. What Drakyn said. I went via the Road of Lesbian to my current spot, but they'll rip my (little used, these days) eyeliner out of my cold, dead hands.

2. At the risk of going massively TMI, I know both self-'mutilation' and trans* stuff pretty well and, y'know, not totally the same thing.

(Also, at risk of sounding like a 'WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ' troll...guys self injure too, Sheila, and, a lot like guys with eating disorders, they tend to get missed for good periods of time and get totally shit on when they get found.)

Trinity said...

"that's exactly why the sex-positive movement is so screwed up, you see; unlike a lot of the bleaters, she -knows- that it isn't just straight men, that there was crossover between the gay male leather (and other) cultures and lesbians early on; she just thinks it's wrong wrong WRONG."

yeah.

oh no, ACTING LIKE LEATHERMEN!

for shame!

I think I'll just wander over here, and...

...keep doing it. :)

Elizabeth McClung said...

Once I saw that a woman was AGAINST female orgasms (something that is still in the "lets not talk about that" area while men have been doing cave paintings on theirs since year dot) I just have to jump down to the end - no, this is where I take a stand - I will orgasm on the beaches, I will orgasm in the streets, this is a long battle, one in which I am sorta looking forward to (getting hot)...but we shall rally our orgasmic forces - orgasm good - don't let them tell ya otherwise.

plain(s)feminist said...

It's like fucking indierock scenesters. I was fighting patriarchy before it was cool. Feminism sucks now that there's people into it.

Holy SHIT, that's brilliant!!! I have to borrow that...

walrus said...

this post makes me want to whip out Ol' Buzzy, light a few candles and make my head pop off.
I second Rootie--what a poor, sad woman.

Does she not know what a wonderful thing the clitoris is???????

belledame222 said...

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Punk or experimental?

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