Thursday, November 30, 2006

...and still more mullings

...or, I don't know, maybe it's a question of it's New York?

but the thing of it is, well, this doesn't apply to feminism per se so much; but when i was coming out in Connecticut, went to the local LGBT center and the bars...yeah, definitely there was a lot more let's call it old-school going on, out in the so-called provinces;

and yet you know i still remember hanging around with a group of wildly disparate dykes (the way you do in a smallish place with not many resources and you're just coming out), and us talkin' sex. And one at least LOVED the girl-girl flicks, yeh, the cheesy hetlez boy-made ones that are by far easier to obtain than artsy independent stuff (of the sort i now perfer) and why not? at least they were something. Another talked about wanting "Helen Hunt printed bedsheets," with clumsy lasciviousness.

What I really remember was the awkwardness, the timidity, about That Subject, which in truth i see -so much more often-, even among supposed sophisiticated people, of all orientations.

"What's your favorite body part" (to be touched).

and one woman shyly answering, "My...my...my...you know..."

and another, more wordly one (and we were all grownups, you understand, many in their forties and fifties), "Okay, your 'Dolores,' sure. Anything else?"

...you know, erogenous zones.

oh, so exciting! i hadn't been in any such discussion with -other lesbians-...and i was still so profoundly uncomfortable with myself, so out of my skin from -years- of practice, that i couldn't really enjoy it. instead agonizing over my lack of experience, how little if anything i had to tell, even at my advanced age...

72 comments:

Rootietoot said...

Oh Lordy, I still can't talk about it...If only Those Parts had better names. The technical ones are so harsh, and the non-technical ones are just...silly. I mean, really...puuuussssssy! Please. Dolores? That does to a perfectly acceptable name what dick does to Dick.

How about "the soft glow of my inner light"

or "the Inner Sanctum"

no? Ok. Dolores, then.

"Hello, Dolores, care to dance?"

Rootietoot said...

is it me or is The Fine Art of Free Speech down?

Word Verification sez :fnmink.

Roy said...

Re: Silly non-technical names

It's so true. Even so, a girl I dated years ago got me in the habit of calling Those Parts "friendships."
Silly?
Sure.
But, I kind of like it, all the same.
It's hard to be embarassed about touching Friendships. Friendships are (mostly) happy and fun, whether they're Those Parts, or more literal.

Veronica said...

HA! I totally witnessed a conversation between my lesbian neighbors about whether or not it was cultural appropriation to use the word 'Yoni' when I was in college.

"Her cunt is oppressing people!"

Renegade Evolution said...

BD:

I think queer folk, and theatre folk, can be way less judgmental and oppressive in the wider sense because well, a lot of 'em know how it feels to be shit on for not conforming...basic, I know, but...

I vote for the naughty bit nickname of "golden temple of the himalayas"...but I suppose something that rhymes with "him - a - layin" would be too sexist...

Rootietoot said...

Unfortunately, "fruit of my loins" has been taken, or I'd use that. I need to come up with something soon, because Someone is getting Something Special for Christmas, and I don't want to feel foolish. Help.
*snort* hima layin...har!
maybe "peaches"

Alex said...

People twitch a lot at cunt, but it's become my usual word. Then again, I don't find vagina too harsh... just too long. Even pussy doesn't bother me that much, but... length!

But maybe we should call them holes and poles from now on.

/end silly

(word verification: "zvhghk", the noise I imagine some people are making at this comment right now)

belledame222 said...

I say "cunt," "pussy" or "vulva," depending on the context. I like "pussy," what can i tell you.

for boy bits, "cock" works; "prick" is okay; hate the word "dick."

the Body electric people use "yoni" and "lingam" (cultural appropriation?! um, isn't that ancient Sanskrit or something? i guess "yoga" is out, too); i...find it pretentious, especially in the vernacular, as it were.

belledame222 said...

thing about "vagina" is it's more specific than people tend to use it for...and "vulva" -really- sounds clinical.

Renegade Evolution said...

Eh, I say cunt, but I am all crass and vulgar like that.

lilcollegegirl said...

I say pussy usually, or just vag. Although vag is usually for jokes.

The word verification has suggested: mucnh. I like it.

belledame222 said...

HA!

forget me not said...

I tend to say cunt. Sometimes pussy if i'm trying to be polite.

I heard someone say 'lady bits' once.

Chuckie K said...

Well, a few years back, I visited a friend in California. She had just broken up with her man, and was living in a trailer behind the cabin of a pair of lesbain friends. So I ended up in a tent downhill by the stream.
Her friends were a butch/femme kind of pair, and the point is that right there in front of me whom they never met before, butch referred to femme as "drippy hole." "Drippy hole" has a certain delicate charm to my ear, but I have never felt that I could myself successfully employ it as as an anatomical label, let alone an endearment.

belledame222 said...

wherein i shoot whatever pitiful shreds of my remaining feminist creds to hell:

http://www.rathergood.com/hedgehogs/"

belledame222 said...

i say boy bits and girl bits (or "naughty bits" in general), sometimes.

JackGoff said...

Just to say, bluemeanie calls hers "Mim". Short from Mimsy, which someone has told me is from "Jabberwocky", but she says it isn't.

I call it the "Mad Madam". Guess the reference.

Veronica said...

Jack, please tell me it's not the Disney Sword in the Stone.

Renegade Evolution said...

BD:

The hedgehogs? ROFLMFAO!

fastlad said...

I like minge. In my schooldays in Ireland boys and girls would often said it to make each other laugh uproariously. It’s such a powerful word.

I remember there was this one girl who I absolutely loved: she had an insolent round face and wore glasses so thick they looked like the bottom of a beer bottle. She used to drive us all around town in her Mini yelling, “Show us your greasy minge then!” at passers by (male and female).

God be with the days.

Bitch | Lab said...

Iheart you BD. Heart, heart, heart. It's good to have a moment to stop buy and read you and the comments sections. :)

Happy!

Sage said...

I like "snatch" and the popular vernacular with the young kids: "junk". Snatch is fun and a little bit dangerous if you think of it as a verb.

I almost had a midwife who said, "down there" which is just wrong. Words can't hurt you, honey.

Drippy hole? Endearing?

Funny story: I have a girlfriend with largish feet, and they were commented on at a friend's place: "Wow, your feet are huge!"

She replied, "Ya, and you know what that means, nudge, nudge..."

And the response: "What? That you've got a huge, gaping hole?"

greymatters said...

I am so smiling at this post, BD. Back a LONG time ago, when I first came out, I went for coffee after a political meeting (arg, I'm soooo not a process person, still ... LOL) and one of my elders (who was the age then that I am now ... OLD ;-)) kept talking about "Clio". "Clio" likes this; "Clio" likes that. I was clueless for a good twenty minutes -- until it dawned on me that she was referring to her vagina (sorry, Mom was a nurse, and I tend to be nurse-y when discussing cunts politely).

Until that point, I thought only men gave their tools a nickname.

Appropriately enough, said person with the "Clio" was a history professor ... LOL. I was aMUSEd.

JackGoff said...

Jack, please tell me it's not the Disney Sword in the Stone.

Well, it...is, actually.

It's such a great movie though! I've got it on DVD...I cool, right? Please?

Word Verification: ipabylg

Sounds painful.

Rootietoot said...

I think I'm going to stick with "peach". It's soft, and has other attributes I am too Presbyterian to put to words.

belledame222 said...

I like that. :-)

lilcollegegirl said...

I think the hedgehogs were too much for me to take this morning. I'm kind of terrified, but very awake!
monster of the day: oogpqcc

belledame222 said...

what really kills me about the hedgehogs: they're sitting in an inflatable raft.

but yeah, rathergood can be a bit, i need to go lie down for a while now, sometimes. mostly for the sheer -randomness.- i keep wondering how much spliff it would take to come up with some of his stuff...

then again,

"He was completely happy, and his mind was completely empty"

(viz Tales of the Blode)

...sometimes that's just what you want.

and kittens, of course.

belledame222 said...

happy i made you happy, BL!

belledame222 said...

i forget where i was reading this anecdote:

old man sez, "I lost mine eye in vulva."

...beg pardon?

after a while, clarification. "Vulva. Vulva Two."

(and now the viper, come to vipe your vindows!...)

Bitch | Lab said...

Ooo. Jackgoff, you be cool.

I'll never forget how this very earnest e-list member, Richard, told us he'd read a study saying women prefer the clinical terms like vagina and penis. We all scoffed at him, which impelled him to toss of this oh so sincere rant about the virtues of the terms he ostensibly also preferred. I wish I'd archived it, freakin' hilarious. Can't get enough them earnest male feminists, I can't.

I think it took me a while to feel comfortable using pussy. I haven't a clue what I used before that, though. I quite stupidly married someone who turned out to be less adventurous than I'd desired, but then the men I'd been with before were young and completely clueless. I went out with one guy who didn't want sex -- and I was this horny 18 y.o. That wasn't the case with women lovers, but one.

The one thing I'd written long ago which BD stumbled over was about how I realized that all my women lovers actually seemed not to like their own pussy. But I think, in retrospect, it isn't that surprising. And, in Pepper Schwartz and Blumstein's massive study of 20,000 het and gay couples of the late 80s, a considerable number of the lesbian couples they interviewed indicated similar feelings toward their own naughty bits: dirty, disgusting, not really something you want to bury yourself in.

I've always wondered how much that was a product of the times, when oral sex was seen as something very low class. It would seem like it would have changed.

Interestingly enough, it was a bi male lover who turned me on to my own pussy in a way I hadn't appreciated: made me feel it was beautiful and something he desired like their was no tomorrow.

belledame222 said...

>when oral sex was seen as something very low class. It would seem like it would have changed.

And see, that's why I can never entirely get behind the "raunch culture is terrible" thing, even though (as Veronica just posted) i do see how it's been a very large and dramatic (at least on the surface) shift these past few years, and a lot of adolescent and young women in particular are not finding this particularly wonderful.

but i think people tend to forget just how -recent- this development is, even when we know, it's like, we don't really know, you, um, know.

it must just seem so incomprehensible to some people that oral sex was ever considered beyond the pale.

and yet, and yet, at the same time; not everyone has caught up with the culture; some people still buy into -very- traditional beliefs, or were raised with them; there's a shitload of misinformation and repression being taught in public schools and by various homeschoolers; and most of all, you can see that it's -still- considered kinda sorta dirty by the ambivalent way it gets expressed in the mainstream pr0n. the whole bigger harder faster thing: sex as machine. we're still not that far away from the Industrial Revolution! in some ways, now more than ever. hard bodies, hardcore, hard words, work it, work it...

real -voluptuousness,- real and unabashed letting go into desire, into sensuality, that, you don't see so much of.

antiprincess said...

if the movie Trainspotting can be considered an accurate reflection of scottish urban folkways, isn't the term "cunt" an all-purpose term for "fellow human being"?

or did I get that all scrambled up?

belledame222 said...

no, that is much more the case Over There than here. men are often "cunts;" it's more like "asshole."

R. Mildred said...

but i think people tend to forget just how -recent- this development is

Some of us are whippersnappers htough, who think that the 80's was like some ancient time of yore where freakish dress senses ruled the lands.

The thing is that "raunch culture" looks alot like it's the new dominant paradigm for patriarchal sexual oppression in the west (though there's always hte muslim feminist or two who is preemptively reacting to the oppression of the raunch culture before it becomes a serious problem for, in much the same vein as Twisty does complete with "oh how the young people these days are going around flauntingthemselves and beingsexual, whoah is me...") but it's entirely possible that the patriarchy is playing a huge bluff, so that one day it'll go "HA! April Fool's Suckahs! Made you hate on your sisters you silly cunts!"

sex as machine

I think diesel engines are kinda sexy, in a technical way (it's the use of pressure as an ignition source, mmm, Yummy!)

alphabitch said...

Dolores. That is too perfect.

I kind of like 'quim' -- sufficiently vulgar, but no mean or nasty connotations. For silly moments, though, it's my tweeter. I have no idea where or when I first heard that. My parents were all about correct anatomical names for everything, without embarrassment.

belledame222 said...

>who think that the 80's was like some ancient time of yore where freakish dress senses ruled the lands.

well, that's actually true.

Sure, Raunch or whatever you'd like to call it is dominant now, in some places; but, is it a keeper?

It seems to me that it's one more aspect of what a (dry, but good theme) book called "Jihad Versus McWorld." right here you would have the McWorld. in this instance, McPr0n.

the "jihad" hasn't gone away, though.

and by that i would include pretty much -all- fundamentalisms, not just the obvious ones.

anything can be a fundamentalism. even oh say feminism. a minor player in the greater scheme of things, but.

and what's still missing is a third alternative, and it would be really good if that would start happening a bit quicker, because, see, my fear is, when things fall apart, that's when the back-to-basics type tend to come to power.

when it's relatively stable, you get the neocon/oligarchy-hyper-mutated-capitalist-thing that we and much of the world has.

this was written way before 9/11 and all of that, p.s., pretty sure.

belledame222 said...

I like "quim," but only when i'm in a Victorian sort of mood.

belledame222 said...

the thing about Dolores is, okay: who pronounces That Other Word as if to rhyme? Because I never did. CLI-ter-us, not clit-TOR-us.

Renegade Evolution said...

For the record, I was flashing thong straps LONG before this whole raunch culture thing...

Sigh. I am a bad, bad woman.

Rootietoot said...

RE! I'm shocked! You tart!

belledame222 said...

tsk. tacky, tacky, TACKY. i bet you wore capris, too, you affront to western civilization/mine tender eyes i mean tool of the patriarchy, six of one.

wv: okcroo

Veronica said...

Yeah. Them Scottish are all cunts if you listen to them talk long enough. And, anything that's not a cunt is the DOG'S BOLLOCKS!

Awesome.

From what I hear, one of those Nordic-type languages commonle uses a word that translates to just "purse."

Veronica said...

Did I miss something? What the fuck is wrong with capri pants?

belledame222 said...

o, just another pronouncement from you-know-who: i thought i ganked it in one of my rants.

here:


"I revisit the notion of the erosion of taste whenever pop culture makes Truth and Beauty its bitch. I do not speak simply of fashion (although would it kill people to quit wearing capri pants?),"

i always knew she had a secret stash of Cosmo under her bed.

oh yeah and: that archived post apparently archives the blogroll too--yes, she actually deigned to keep one for a while there, a short one; included in it is some sort of...shoe blog.

i'm sure it was merely for irony's sake

Rootietoot said...

Capri pants show the ankles. Tsk.

Hummingbyrd said...

erogenous zones
===============

I was just talking about these last night.

Veronica said...

Ankles! Tarty, indeed! For shame! And, cover those table legs! Children can see!

Renegade Evolution said...

Capri pants? Are you outta your mind? Never owned a pair, never will...

(low rise jeans, sorry).

word verification: urdmak

Sage said...

On oral sex: So I was at the doctor's once because I had a sore throat that just wouldn't go away. I had recently gotten over a yeast infection, so I asked her, could I have caught it from my partner in my throat? (A very reasonable question, I might add.) She said, "WHAT were you doing??"

Shocking, I am. Absolutely shocking.

belledame222 said...

oh christ. fun with doctors! when i was trying to get a prescription for something i needed without insurance (dermatology, totally unrelated to anything about to follow), i had to find a doctor, any doctor, on my insurance list (i had insurance then...)

so he's checking over my health history, and note, "Zoloft, eh? That delays orgasm by [something like] 900%. If it took you ten minutes before, it'll take -nine hours- now..."

and i'm all, thanks for sharing, but really, no. give me my meds and let me go...o i see, the price is me having to listen to you babble for another ten minutes...

agh.

I like capris. i have been sneered at by -experts-, gay men, for that particular fashion choice; Twisty's a rank amateur, and i do mean rank. they can all chomp me. they're comfortable and they make me happy.

so good that someone's looking after my interests wrt not being objectified, though!

belledame222 said...

--what's really fun is when you forget about the fading bruises from yer last spanking, oh! tsk! did you fall?

Rootietoot said...

I was discussing this conversation with my husband last night, and told him about peaches. He looked at me funny and said "What about your Appreciation?" OH! I forgot about that! Early on in our marriage (some 20 years ago) Showing Our Appreciation to each other was code (in front of the kids)for Getting Nekkid and Having Fun. "Ooh thanks, hon! How about I show you my appreciation later on..."

Tom Nolan said...

Until that point, I thought only men gave their tools a nickname. - Greymatter

Mine didn't have a nickname until my (then) girlfriend insist I give it one. I thought about if for a moment or two and came up with "Inchbold". But she wasn't happy - apparently the idea was that I would come up with something hypermasculine which she could then betray to her giggling girlfriends. And in fact she invented something of her own for the purpose: "Capone". On account of my not being circumcised.

Just thought I'd share that with you all.

Chuckie K said...

Until now, I had the impression that it was only the girls who names these things. As when The Love of My Life began to refer to my primary male sexual characteristic, that being my own preferred label, as Gertrude. Out of respect for my self-effacing modesty and chaste demeanor.
Returning to the problems of the primary female sexual characteristic, this lack of respect, not to say affection, for one's own has long baffled me and struck me as obtuse. Thak goodness for oral sex becoming acceptable. Perhaps even de rigueur for some circles. Because it is that close up visual wonder that enthralled me.
And that embarassing incident the day after the first performance on the Vagina Monologues here at the lcoal Walmart of Ideas, a performance to which I was invited by one of our student employees and in which she performed one of the monologues, and who for the sake of exactitude I will say had in college devoted her inclinations to women, so that I might enjoy her attentions but with no thoughts of her affections, for a man of my age, however, her attentions alone providing an inexhaustible source of comfort and gratification.
Of course she asked for my impressions. They were indeed most favorable, and I eventually arrived at the chord struck in me by one monologue devoted to that wondrous appearance of the vagina. As this young woman, in honesty perhaps somewhat plain of face, but tall and of an elegant voluptuous figure that for my taste was as complete as I could imagine, looked straight and long into my eyes and smiled a charming smile of delight, I could not restrain my enthusiasm and waxed rhapsodical on those minute intricate folds, that subtle, delicate grain, the infinite gradations of those pink and purple tones. Until I suddenly recalled that I was, after all, standing at a relatively busy public service desk in a relatively heavily frequented public area, and my rapturous descriptions might be a tad inappropriate to some ears in that setting.
So sadly, I throttled back to a business casual choice of topics and diction. But then, and as you see now, that appearance alone beggrs all description, and makes the choice of a single term an impossible quest.

Alex said...

I've been trying out 'quim' for the past ten minutes (verbally, sadly, not actually trying out any), and I can't say it without feeling like I'm supposed to be the Queen.

Word key zlblwn. They'll blow one?

JackGoff said...

As always, with everything, in my experience, letting everyone label themselves even their body parts, and respecting that label as long as it doesn't inherently imply degrading other people, is important to treating them like equal human beings.

Word Verification: zcvsvp

It contains the world, and yet no vowels.

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