Tuesday, November 14, 2006

A real man's guide to really being a man

...i.e. pretty much most being a responsible human being. From the comment section of a post at The Fine art of Free Speech and Dissent (scroll down a ways): Mr. Evolution has a few things to say to some of the Falling Down manly-man-man-type d00dz, all a-brim with toxic gall and mistaking it for testosterone:

If a real man wants to have sex and not worry about diseases or babies he cannot count on anyone but himself to take precaution. It’s his dick, he has the responsibility to watch out for it.
-If a man screws up on this and he gets a woman pregnant, unless he is married to her (and even then, actually), unless he is willing to foot the bill for everything, the prenatal care, the delivery, and take custody and raise and provide for that baby himself, he should shut the hell up.
-There is nothing wrong with American/Western woman. Gee, they speak their minds and have jobs and can be competitive. Boo-fucking-hoo. Give me a chick who takes no shit and can bring home some dough and can give me a run or an ass kicking at the pool table to some quiet submissive little domestic ‘who knows her place’ any day of the week. If I wanted a maid, I’d hire one. If I wanted a cook, I’d hire one. If I wanted a hooker, I’d hire one. I want a woman who stimulates my mind and my personality as well as my dick. I am not saying all ‘non-American/Western women are ‘submissive little domestics who know their place’, but it sure as hell sounds like the MRA’s are…oh, and Russian Women? I know one woman from Russia. She’s a tattooed SWAT officer who could kick my ass, drink me under the table, looks DAMN fine in uniform and oh yeah, is a heterosexual mother of three and a great cook.
-Women do not ‘deserve it’. A woman dressed sleazy is not openly begging for you to rape her. If she wants to fuck you, she’ll probably tell you. If you are that worked up, find a bathroom and use your hand. If a woman ‘nags’ you, you can ignore her or walk out the door before you get so angry that you have to hit her. If the woman in your life is torturing you so endlessly…leave!
-Any man with kids who thinks his working day is over when he leaves the office is a jackass, especially if his partner is an at home mother. You sit in an air-conditioned cubicle in the adult sector of the world. She is at home all day with energetic, loud, demanding creatures which often times cannot control their own bodily functions, cleaning, cooking, at doing your laundry. If anyone deserves a stiff drink and some quiet time when you get home, it’s her. You deserve that time too, but she gets dibs, brother.

-A real man can carry on a conversation with a woman.
-A real man does not take constant shit from a manipulative female in return for getting laid.
-A real man does not NEED to exert his perceived ‘dominance’. Nor should he want to.
-A real man does not feel he has to demand sex, nor does he have a right do.
-A real man checks himself before he looses his temper.
-A real man is not a doormat.
-A real man realizes he needs his alone time, and that a woman needs her own.
-A real man keeps himself up for a woman, especially if he expects her to do the same.
-A real man respects a woman, especially if he expects her to do the same.
-A real man uses caution when entering any relationship that is going to last more than one night and protection every time, especically on those nights.
-A real man can handle a woman’s criticism, and offer it in return, without being a jackass.
-A real man does not resent a woman for his own mistakes and shortcomings. Nor does he resent her for her talents and accomplishments.
-A real man stands up and takes responsibility, even if a woman won’t.
-A real man does not do something just because that is what all the “cool” (PC, emo, manly, feminist, MRA, progressive, whatever) men are doing.
-A real man does not blame his misfortune on anyone. If his own doing brought it about, he accepts it, if it was the doing of others, he deals with it.
-Real men don’t whine (neither do real women, for that matter).
-Real men are entitled to complain, discuss, or have issues with a situation, however.
-A real man can get burned just as easily as anyone else.
-A real man’s ‘place’ is wherever he is best suited in his partnership to be, be that in the work a day world, or in the home.
-A real man judges women as individuals, not as a class.
-A real man does not let other men speak for him, he does it for himself.
-A real man does not place his lusts over his partner’s rights.
-A real man resorts to physical violence only as a last resort and only overt physical violence in true self defense.


(more)

27 comments:

Alon Levy said...

Thank you.

Taihae said...

gawd whatta keeper...

emily said...

*Real* man? What's a fake man then? How to tell them apart? What if a man's faking it by obeying these rules?

Masculine simulacra innit.

Amber said...

Dammit I was going to post this on my blog, too! But you beat me to it. This is what I get for lolly-gagging. Oh well... I'll probably still post it anyway. It was that good.

Renegade Evolution said...

Great, give the guy an even bigger head ;)

Unsane said...

Wow good advice from a non self-destructive man.

ballgame said...

I think this guy's a real asshole, frankly.

But then I take a pretty dim view of the phrase 'a real man' unless it's in the middle of a joke.

Not that there aren't some perfectly sensible perspectives buried under the sneering judgmentalism, but most of it would be better couched in ungendered terms, instead of inside all the patriarchal pomposity.

I don't think you can brutalize people into being more empathetic. I don't think you can shame people into being more accepting of their authentic selves.

Given some of the wonderfully insightful things about men you each have written, renegade, unsafe, and belledame, I find your embrace of this kind of bombast a bit of an eyebrow-raiser.

belledame222 said...

well, for one thing, he's renegade's S.O.

for another; yeah, generally i'm not that impressed with any sort of "real man" business; but given the context of the discussion and the people he was talking to, i have no beef with it; it makes sense there, i think.

belledame222 said...

and no, i don't think he's gonna shame those guys into changing their minds either; this was clearly one of those posts that's actually mostly playing to the house. sometimes one feels the need for this sort of thing.

RE's had an influx of these guys, and imo has been remarkably patient and kind thus far.

belledame222 said...

...ah, I forgot to include the link, didn't I.

FoolishOwl said...

In that context, I think the use of "A real man" was a sort of joke, since he's cutting against the sexist notion of proper gendered behavior.

Renegade Evolution said...

ballgame:

Um, well, yeah, he kind of is an asshole. On occasion. But I dig him anyway. He was actually trying to prove a point to a bunch of mainly men who think things like, oh, smacking a woman if she nags to much is okay, women are mostly useless, if a woman does not want to get pregnant (to trap a man and all) she should not have sex...that kind of thing. And the whole "real man" deal was in response to all the comments made over yonder by "real men".

belledame222 said...

well, and in terms of "sneering judgmentalism," here's a response he got, okay:

"Anonymous said...
Mr Evolution...

Is that your last name or hers?

"If I wanted a hooker, I’d hire one."

Sounds like you've got that covered already. She give you a discount?

"-If a real man wants to have sex and not worry about diseases or babies he cannot count on anyone but himself to take precaution. It’s his dick, he has the responsibility to watch out for it."

Wise advice coming from a guy who is banging a whore.

"-If a man screws up on this and he gets a woman pregnant, unless he is married to her (and even then, actually), unless he is willing to foot the bill for everything, the prenatal care, the delivery, and take custody and raise and provide for that baby himself, he should shut the hell up."

And if he is willing to do that and the woman still wants to terminate, she can. The man has no say at all.

"Women do not ‘deserve it’. A woman dressed sleazy is not openly begging for you to rape her. If she wants to fuck you, she’ll probably tell you."

Or just assume she can get guys to buy her drinks all night because her tits and ass are hanging out...

"If you are that worked up, find a bathroom and use your hand. If a woman ‘nags’ you, you can ignore her or walk out the door before you get so angry that you have to hit her. If the woman in your life is torturing you so endlessly…leave!"

Why, so she can take at least half as soon as your ass is out the door?

"-A real man keeps himself up for a woman, especially if he expects her to do the same."

Yeah, but a woman expects a man to pay for her upkeep."


***

Y'know, as you know (I hope), in general i believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, at least to start with; but do you really think sweet reason and gentle understanding are gonna get through to someone like -this?- I mean, godspeed and god bless, but...

ME's actual answer to that one was not so turn-the-other-cheek, and i cheered him on for it.

belledame222 said...

actually, it's worth a repost:

mrevolution said...
Anonymous:

"Is that your last name or hers?"

Hers. I know a catchy blog handle when I see it.

"If I wanted a hooker, I’d hire one." -Sounds like you've got that covered already. She give you a discount?"

Nah, freebies. And she's damn good looking and skilled in the art of all those strange positions you and some of the other MRA's complain the mean porn mags make you feel unmanly about because you can't do them, get a good looking women to do them with you, and make you feel like everyone else is having that kind of sex with that kind of woman. Haha! I AM having that kind of sex with that kind of woman...does your penis feel smaller because of it?

"-If a real man wants to have sex and not worry about diseases or babies he cannot count on anyone but himself to take precaution. It’s his dick, he has the responsibility to watch out for it." -Wise advice coming from a guy who is banging a whore."

No brother, wise advice for a guy banging anyone who does not want an STD or an unwanted pregnancy. In fact, you're better off banging whore, because they tend to be damn cautious themselves.

"-If a man screws up on this and he gets a woman pregnant, unless he is married to her (and even then, actually), unless he is willing to foot the bill for everything, the prenatal care, the delivery, and take custody and raise and provide for that baby himself, he should shut the hell up.-And if he is willing to do that and the woman still wants to terminate, she can. The man has no say at all."

Then he should not have knocked her up in the first place...see the wise adivce coming from the guy who is banging a whore.


"Women do not ‘deserve it’. A woman dressed sleazy is not openly begging for you to rape her. If she wants to fuck you, she’ll probably tell you."-Or just assume she can get guys to buy her drinks all night because her tits and ass are hanging out..."

Right, and she physically throws you down and makes you pay for that gin&tonic, doesn't she? Just say no, man, just say no!


"If you are that worked up, find a bathroom and use your hand. If a woman ‘nags’ you, you can ignore her or walk out the door before you get so angry that you have to hit her. If the woman in your life is torturing you so endlessly…leave! -Why, so she can take at least half as soon as your ass is out the door?"

Maybe if you spent more time actually, you know, getting to know a woman and talking to her you could determine the 'nag-factor' before you put a ring on her finger? Makes logical sense to me...

"-A real man keeps himself up for a woman, especially if he expects her to do the same. -Yeah, but a woman expects a man to pay for her upkeep."

Eh, Mz Evolution pays for her own upkeep. And you know, a LOT of women keep their men in shape...they cook for them, making them round. Round is a shape after all...

Renegade Evolution said...

BD:

You know I laughed my freakin' ass off when he got all snarky? "Round is a shape?" When Mr.E starts using quotes from "The Great White Hype" its all over...

belledame222 said...

Oh, is that a quote? did not know. it's still hell funny.

ballgame said...

well, for one thing, he's renegade's S.O.

OOPS!

(Damn, and I'm generally pretty good about avoiding ad hominem, so of course the one time my sainthood* slips …)

Anyway, sorry 'bout that RE (& RE's SO).

But, even given all the caveats, I still find the whole notion of 'using sexism to fight sexism' to be highly problematic.

(*/irony)

Renegade Evolution said...

Ballgame-

Tis no thing. Hell, he would tell you himself that he is an asshole. Ex-frat rat and all... occasionally I think he flashes back to some awful hazing ritual for these kinds of posts...

Still made me laugh though.

misterniceguy1960 said...

Delightful!

Sorry ballgame didn't get the joke.

Unsane said...

Yes, it's just turning the patriarchal rhetoric back onto patriarchal types, showing them how bad they look even from the perspective of their own values. This needs to be done. For many a slob and a worm thinks he's John Wayne, but he's not even that interesting.

Amber said...

Yeah, context is key. Don't go gettin' all uppity and self-righteous before considering the context. You know, the whole "not existing in a vacuum" thing...

mrevolution said...

No, really, I am an asshole.

mrevolution said...

No, really, I am an asshole.

belledame222 said...

But are you really an asshole?

Renegade Evolution said...

ROFLAMO! Yeah, but he's pretty, so..

Dan L-K said...

I'm really seeing the fact that RE has to put up with this nonsense in the first place as final and damning evidence that the MRAs turned in their keys to the Reality-Based Community ages hence. Because at some point, someone said, "Hey, our agenda sure is getting nowhere on all these popular feminist blogs. Where shall we go next? Oh, I know - this chick who could bite me in half."

Some dumb fuckers you just can't talk out of putting their head in the tiger's mouth.

belledame222 said...

Well, it makes perfect sense if what (given dude's) -real- problem is in fact -strong women,- period.