Saturday, April 28, 2007

Take Back the Blog

So. Here we are.

You know. I'd meant to use this occasion to talk more about the general harassment and menacing that happens to women and other members of traditionally oppressed groups--hell, it can happen to anyone, as far as that goes; but, more often, to people who are already vulnerable, one way or another. To people (often, but not always, women) that other people (often, but not always, men) want to, well, let's take a look at what the National Center for Victims of Crime says:

Top three reasons victims felt they were being stalked:

stalker wanted to control victim,

stalker wanted to keep victim in relationship,

and stalker wanted to scare victim.

Hold that thought.

So, yeah, there have been a lot of creepy-as-shit happenings around the greater 'sphere. A lot of good people feeling, quite justifiably, unsafe, not just emotionally but "in real life," as it were. We've talked about some of them here. Kathy Sierra. Devious Diva. Jill Filipovic. On and on.

And, I was going to have some sort of general meditation on this...phenomenon: what do you reasonably do to protect yourself without feeling muzzled, what is and isn't fair play in flamewars, at what point does "just the Internets" spill over into "the real world" (hint: once someone's physically injured or even loses a job or relationship due to online "outing" or other such interference, it's "real;" the problem is stopping it BEFORE it gets to that point.)

As it happens, however, it appears that I am personally, if tangentially, implicated in something that thematically is not entirely unrelated to this l'il Day of Recognition of Creepy Internets Stalking And Threats And So On.

How exciting!

Or, not.

Those in the peanut gallery, I do apologize for what looks like a return to the "internecine feminist wars." It's partly that. But it's partly more than that; and it's the "more than that" that's roused me from my Warner Brothers and Monty Python nap and is getting me to wade in, once afuckinggain, as well as connect it to this here Take Back the Blog! business. Hopefully for the last time for...a while, anyway.

Let's start here.

...want me to keep digging?

Because the only way a sociopath will let go and leave the target alone is if the target makes it NOT worth their while. So, whilst you refuse to stop slagging off radfems, I will continue to dig.

RenegadeEvolution // Apr 25th 2007 at 10:31 pm ( edit)


What, because outing me, stalking me, providing my information for public view is such the right thing to do? Really, is it? My legal address, families home number, all that, is that next? Think that is not threatening, perhaps a little endangering? Way out of bounds? Something I would never do and have actually blogged against? Wow, actual threats and intimidation. I'm impressed.

Apr 25th 2007 at 10:38 pm
What, because outing me, stalking me, providing my information for public view is such the right thing to do?

It is all information that you, or those around you have posted in blogland. I said nothing about your family information. I do not post information that is not publicly available, and in this case, I am using (well, rather collating) the information you have posted about yourself. Being a narcissist really does have disadvantages you know.

So what will actually MAKE you STOP slagging off radfems?

Shall I show them the photo, the one without the black eye strips?


Okay. A little background. Renegade has herself been called out recently for saying some nasty shit. A summary and her (one of her) responses to this can be found here.

For the record: I can totally understand why people would find that language disturbing, even "silencing." I'll be blunt: it made me uncomfortable, the rage levels, and yes, I've said plenty of nasty, angry shit my own sweet self. What can I tell you. Nonetheless, a general rant, without singling out anyone or naming names, culminating with "Fall under a truck and die choking on your own blood" is not, in fact, a -threat.- That is a -curse.- A nasty one. But a curse. It is not, "I am going to hunt you down, -puffball-, and push you under a truck, p.s. I know where you live, here's the address and a photo of your house." But then Renegade can speak for herself there, and has done. Several times now.

Not to get -totally- confusing, but I guess there's some other shit swirling about as well, something to do with "leaked" messages from a private inner forum of a particular feminist board. My current thoughts/feelings about this are summed up in this comment here. Cassandra has some sensible things to say about it as well.

But all of this is, I think, really a sideline, and not actually at the heart of whatever's driving this.

Because, we've been here before, haven't we, Stormcloud? Last time, you tried to strongarm antiprincess into taking down her entire blog. Then, as now, your purpose seems to have been to get people not so much to keep the commons "safe" or even be nicer or fairer to each other, but to "stop slagging off radfems." Then, as now, you seemed bent on tracking all your woes to one individual (of many) who has the reputation of saying meen/"unfair" things about your chosen ideology, and/or (!) the behavior of some of you who do or say rather crappy things in the name of said ideology, and/or good old fashioned flaming and sniping.

Then, as now, I pointed out that what you are demanding is neither reasonable nor makes any goddam sense.

Unless, of course, we put it in the context of:

...wanted to control...

The main difference now is, you've upped the ante. You've added wanted to scare.

So what will actually MAKE you STOP slagging off radfems?

Shall I show them the photo, the one without the black eye strips?

Note that -wanted to- is here considered sufficient for the definition of "stalking," whether you've actually succeeded in scaring the target or not.

Which brings us to the other part, the more relevant, I believe, of the background.
Renegade is a sex worker--stripper, porn actress, model. As anyone purportedly working on the behalf of women and especially women who have been in the sex industry ought to know, there are particular vulnerabilities that such women are subject to in this our Patriarchal world, and no, in fact, they do not only come from the evil industry itself.

They come from the attitudes of a world which, by and large, thinks that "whores" are disposable, and deserve whatever they get.

Lose your "day" job, lose your family, lose your friends. Open yourself up to even more harassment than your average female bear.

That's sort of the point, though, right?

So what will actually MAKE you STOP slagging off radfems?

Now, I'm not clear on which "them" are supposed to be shown Ren's photo without the black eye strips. But given the overall context of that little exchange (it goes on), it's pretty clear that the implication is -someone Ren wouldn't want to know who she is.-

Stormcloud, you say here:

It is all information that you, or those around you have posted in blogland. I said nothing about your family information. I do not post information that is not publicly available, and in this case, I am using (well, rather collating) the information you have posted about yourself.

And you know, that ought to be at least somewhat reassuring; but, from where I sit, it's not.

1) You -said- nothing about her family information, you -do not post- information that is not publically available; that still doesn't say anything about what you -will- order to make sure we none of us (oh, I'm getting there) "slag off radfems.

2) I'm leery of the phrase "publicly available." That COULD mean "only things RE has posted online in 'public' forums;" it could also mean "full name, phone number and address; after all they ARE in the phone book." And, too, she's been pretty clear that some shit she's taken down specifically for self-protection purposes; you are deliberately ignoring this. Not just things she's -said- about radfems or anything else of that sort (we'll get to that): -personal shit.- Name, name of loved ones, photos. Not Cool.

2a) so then what exactly do you mean by "want me to keep digging?"

3) and here's the $64,000 one: trying to personally blackmail someone at ALL, however ineptly, because you want her to STOP SAYING MEAN THINGS ABOUT A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY, is, well? Deeply fucked up.

And! And. It gets better. And here's what's dragged me into the fray, finally, Dear Readers:


I won't personally say word one to or about another radical feminist blogger unless asked for my opinion or invited to comment in her space. If linked or quoted, I do think I have the right to give my side or defend myself. Large feminist/women's issues, I do think I have a right to comment or write about them or critique/analyze them, but I will avoid bashing. Books and noted authors/speakers, I think I should be able to do the same, but I will avoid bashing them.

Perfect, except for the loophole that you will allow the posse to continue.

...Whilst it seems unfair that RE has been 'singled out', it is because she is a ringleader, one of them at least, but has also been one of the most prolific in posting radbashing, plus stirring it up. The others of the posse do know full well what is going on, and should have the good sense to follow suit.

Let's just get one thing very, very clear. I am not ALLOWED by anyone to say or do anything. I own my own words, no one else's; and I answer to no one. Not Renegade, not antiprincess, not Princess Sparkle Pony, not the Pussycat Dolls Porn Posse, not the Zionist International Conspiracy, and least of all to some sorry little wet sparrowfart shaking tremulous tinfoil-covered fists and mouthing wild accusations and vague imprecations from the other side of the Atlantic.*

*Guide for the Perplexed: the above was not, in fact, a threat. That was a flame. A fine and time-honored Internet tradition, and yet another arena in which you are not so much morally superior as simply inept, Insect Girl.

Oh, yeah, and that second post? Which captured your publically posted words for all Internet eternity? Well, I realize that you don't -like- that. See, thing is, though: capturing someone's words and saying, "hey! you said something stupid as shit here!" or "ooh, you say you never said such and so, but here you are, saying such and so!" is not, in fact, on a par with posting sensitive shit like other peoples' nekkid and un-black-barred photos (or home addresses, or names of partners, and so on, and so on).

The latter is a potential endangerment to one's material well-being. The former is--an embarassment.

And that's what this is really all about, isn't it?

Stop slagging off (my chosen peer group/ideology)

Stop making us LOOK bad. Stop -embarassing- us.

Which, as a P.R. technique, well, savor the brilliance, there.

But apart from that--whatever deal was agreed on by you and Renegade is between the two of you. No more, no less.

Here is the deal, -my- deal, Stormcloud, the ONLY deal.

I hereby promise to not go try to look up and post for all to see -your- (or anyone's) personal information, (hey, I figure we both keep pseudonyms for a reason, right Stormy?) make -your- everyday, offline life miserable, or interfere with such in any way.

That would be true with or without your -ultimatums.- Without your -treaties- or whatever it is this week. Those are my ethics. That's it. That's all.

And: this is more etiquette than ethics, but I also will not attempt to post at anyone's blog where I have been explicitly requested--by the owner--not to post.

And: in general, I -try- to back up my arguments and other such shit; that is certainly something we could all be more stringent about, though, myself no doubt included.

And, as it happens, believe it or not, I have been trying to extricate myself from this godforsaken "'Radfem' versus Everyone Else but especially the Wasp/Sparkle Pony/Fuckbot Brigade" merrygoround for quite a while. And it is, has been, in fact, my intention to do my utmost to studiously ignore the lot of you from here on out, and in fact have been rather unsubtly suggesting to my pals that they do the same (and vice versa). This has been true for a while now, actually. Mostly because, it's really fucking boring. You're boring. Dear Jesus on a cracker, I'm boring myself for fuck's sweet sake.

So, apart from instances where this shit really does spill over into potentially affecting actual lives--to wit, say, lawmaking, or, y'know, -stalking-, I am gonna -continue- to do my utmost to talk about anything and everything BUT this shite. Try to persuade my friends to do likewise, because I would just enjoy our interactions so much better (and if I can't, well, that is their prerogative, because I am Not The Boss Of Them, nor they of me). Not, let us be -very- clear, because I give a fart in a high wind what you think or are plotting in your feverish little brain. Because I HAVE A LIFE GODDAMIT.

Having said that.

I do not promise to abstain from talking about any subject I please, linking to any public post or quoting the words thereof (same as everyone on the goddam Internets, Stormy) in order to further my own argument, say garden-variety meen things aka "flames" about any particular ideology, group or individual, or look at you cross-eyed. Especially not on account of your -threats.-

If you do not care for this policy, you may proceed to the complaints department, where you may fill out a form in triplicate, cram it in your gob, chew it vigorously to a fine pulp, spread it all over your body and wallow in it 'til you're fungal.

For that matter--you can do anything you please. We are all free agents, after all, even within our limited circles. And, should you decide to go ahead and do...whatever it is you're vaguely threatening to do...well, that's your decision.

Your choice, that is. No one is MAKING you do any such thing.

So, yeah, you could do that.

And if you do, you will be held responsible for it. And, one way or another, in whatever way those of us who were affected decide is ethical, there will be consequences.

Furthermore, as a matter of fact, here's what you've accomplished:

From here on out, in the event that Renegade or any of her "posse" (otherwise known as "friends") is "outed" online or off, and subsequently harassed--guess where we're ALL going to be looking first, Stormcloud?

Even if you didn't do it.

Unfair, isn't it?

Now, I understand that you see yourself as having taken one for the team, as it were, so perhaps this doesn't bother you so much.

Whilst I am the most nastiest unreasonablest bitch on the planetS I am trying to get all of you to see the end goal. Yeah my name is fucking mud. So what. I'll live.

Ends justify the means, eh? Okay.

Now, personally, I don't actually see you as representative of "radfems." I think you are basically speaking and acting for, well? yourself.

But let's say more people besides you share this belief that what you did was not only for the sake of, but for the -good of-, radical feminism. Ists. Whatever.

Here is what you just did, effectively:

"In the name of keeping all women safe, theoretically, I have just threatened to compromise another woman's safety. And, in the name of salvaging radical feminism's good name, I have...just threatened to compromise another woman's safety. In, um, the name of radical feminism. ...VIVA!"

Nice going, loser.

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